In February, ZeniMax filed an injunction to request the worldwide blocking of sales of products that use Oculus software, which includes both Rift and Gear VR hardware, following a recent high-profile court case against Facebook/Oculus. According to a Bloomberg report, the hearing was held on Tuesday, where Oculus’ lawyers fought the ban, which has so far not seen a ruling.

Oculus’ lawyers argued that the injunction “would serve no one but ZeniMax, who would use it only as leverage to try to extract money from Oculus” and that it “would create a windfall for ZeniMax while detracting from the public’s enjoyment of Oculus’s groundbreaking products”.

They noted that ZeniMax’s requested re-write of the Oculus code base would be “lengthy, burdensome, and costly”, requiring the hiring of “clean-room engineers to make myriad changes not just to the code fragments ZeniMax presented at trial, but to numerous other segments of interrelated and interdependent code.”

ZeniMax, on the other hand, pushed the damage demand from $500 million to $1 billion. A summary of the hearings following the initial jury verdict is available (via subscription) at Law360.

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According to Bloomberg, US District Judge Ed Kinkeade encouraged lawyers representing both sides to reach a settlement, and the hearing ended without a ruling. Our detailed breakdown on the ZeniMax vs Oculus lawsuit explains why the complexities of technology copyright infringement cases can drag on indefinitely.

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Dominic Brennan
The trial version of Microsoft’s Monster Truck Madness probably had something to do with it. And certainly the original Super Mario Kart and Gran Turismo. A car nut from an early age, Dominic was always drawn to racing games above all other genres. Now a seasoned driving simulation enthusiast, and former editor of Sim Racer magazine, Dominic has followed virtual reality developments with keen interest, as cockpit-based simulation is a perfect match for the technology. Conditions could hardly be more ideal, a scientist once said. Writing about simulators lead him to Road to VR, whose broad coverage of the industry revealed the bigger picture and limitless potential of the medium. Passionate about technology and a lifelong PC gamer, Dominic suffers from the ‘tweak for days’ PC gaming condition, where he plays the same section over and over at every possible combination of visual settings to find the right balance between fidelity and performance. Based within The Fens of Lincolnshire (it’s very flat), Dominic can sometimes be found marvelling at the real world’s ‘draw distance’, wishing virtual technologies would catch up.
  • Me

    Facebook should sell Oculus so that someone could finally make a good use of all the valuable assets that are held prisoners in there…

    • GigaSora

      Zenimax should get over it and stop acting like a crappy company.

      • David Herrington

        It appears that Oculus took what wasn’t their’s to take and didn’t give Zenimax what they wanted for it. Also, Zenimax is now invested in a different VR HMD solution and wants to hurt the thieves as much as possible.

        Don’t expect this to end soon or ever end as long as Zenimax has interest in VR.

        • CURTROCK

          Zenimax has created NOTHING as far as a VR HMD is concerned. Carmack wrote some code. He was working for Zenimax, so they own the code. Fine. Threatening to stop sales of Rift is grossly over reaching. They are coming off as extremely greedy & opportunistic.

          • chicanoterp06

            You’re aware that your statement essentially backs up zenimax’s case, right? Oculus is still using the code that is zenimax’s property, hence why zenimax wants more money/royalty for continued use of that code. If they start using other code then they don’t have to pay a royalty.

          • CURTROCK

            Im aware. The truth is always somewhere in the middle. Carmack was working for zenimax, so there is probably some sort of settlement due. But zenimax is acting like they built the entire VR industry. Bullshit. Oculus did the heavy lifting. Zenimax should cut a deal, and Fuck Off & stop trying to fuck with the VR community entirely. Halting sales of the Rift? Asshats.

          • David Herrington

            They took a whole PC from zenimax to Oculus and copied it. Then a day after the subpoenas went out for the lawsuit Carmack “Accidentally” securely wiped his drive.

            https://www.pcgamesn.com/john-carmack-googled-how-to-wipe-a-hard-drive

            Here is the Brief in Support from the case (longer read): http://www.duetsblog.com/files/2017/03/Zenimax-Brief-in-support-of-injunction-motion.pdf

          • CURTROCK

            yeah, and i guess Zenimax “Accidentally” waited until Oculus built up the company and the brand until it was sold for billions of dollars, before deciding they had been wronged.

          • ummm…

            not relevant. stealing is stealing. stop acting like a child.

          • ummm…

            he doesn’t care. he has an axe to grind.

          • ummm…

            where did they say the built the whole industry? are they going after htc? microsoft? fove? etc? you are wrong. deal………with…..it

          • Oculus didn’t create the whole industry! That’s absurd! I’ve been using VR for over 20 years. The first HMD was built in 1961! VR has been around for a very long time. It was just too expensive for consumers. Also, Vive shipped a superior system (room-scale) around the same time Oculus launched.

          • Factual

            Pretty sure you can thank Lucky Palmer for the rekindled interest in modern VR.

          • Steam was already working on their VR system in 2012 when Palmer started the Oculus Kickstarter campaign.

          • Sponge Bob

            this is the price to pay for not having patents with clear inventorship and priority dates (and courts understanding basic IP principles)
            eat it now, USA

          • zflorence1

            This is correct. Content developers have to deal with this reality all the time; while contracted with an employer, the creator him/herself does not own what is created unless otherwise stated in the agreement. Carmack knew this well, yet decided to take what was “his” and use it for an exterior project. If I started using the work I’ve created at my company without permission to launch something on the outside you can bet I’d here about it and possibly be in hot water. However, code or any language is tricky, so you essentially have to prove that while it uses the same structure, it is uniquely different. Zenimax is saying, “You took the code you created while you were at our company and changed a few things here and there but its still the same damn thing!”, Oculus fights back with, “We took the code and flipped it on it’s head, consequently using it as a foundation for something radically and functionally different!” This is the gritty of the argument. That is why Oculus and Facebook’s best bet was to make Zenimax appear like they were just going for a money grab, and were not on any kind of path to use that code in question to launch an HMD. Yet, still, it doesn’t solve the pesky problem of the code itself being used and admittedly from Oculus it forms the basis for a great deal if it were to take that much work and time to modify it well past the point of being “non-literal” (very similar).

          • David Herrington

            Actually, Zenimax has created a significant portion. Oculus’ HMD doesn’t work at all without software from Zenimax. Palmer Luckey isn’t a software developer and his HMD had no tracking when he sent it to Carmack.

          • CURTROCK

            So, why didn’t they speak up and take legal action after the Kickstarter, or the DK1 release, or the DK2 release?

          • G Vandom

            because Zenimax behaved like adults and tried to negotiate with Oculus and settle the matter but Oculus dragged them along and refused to come to therms.
            And when it was clear no agreement could be reached then the court filings where handed out.
            Court cases are expensive so they tried to avoid that if possible.

          • CURTROCK

            Oh, ok. i See. So its Oculus, bad…Zenimax good. Thanks for your unbiased analysis. At least i even admitted restitution is prob owed to Zenimax. I just think they are over reaching.

          • ummm…

            UNBIASED?!?!!?!!? A FREAKING COURT HAD THIS FINDING YOU RUBE.

          • CURTROCK

            This was a civil discussion. but i guess being the COCKSUCKER that you are, you had to start calling names. This Zenimax thing is not as one sided as you Oculus Haters are portraying it. You are cherry picking your facts & reports.

          • ummm…

            i suppose one has to hate oculus to be a judge as well

          • ummm…

            where is the statute that requires them to?

          • George Hess

            The DK1 protoype had tracking before carmak even enter the picture it did not however have 6dof. Carmack met luck while lucky was demoing it. it was just using a common IMU board.

          • David Herrington

            Actually…

            “Luckey’s prototype did not provide a virtual reality experience. Among other things, it had no ability to track a user’s movements or change what the user saw based on where the user looked.”

            This is from the Brief in Support from the case that I mentioned earlier.

          • ummm…

            so if zenimax created nothing then why did oculus use their IP? why did a judge find merit in their argument? cmon dude. does your mother know you say such ridiculous things?

      • ummm…

        why get over it? its their IP. Pay or pound dirt.

    • Get Schwifty!

      How do you think selling Oculus would free anything up?

      • Me

        There are good people in there, willing to do their job. The business decisions that where made by either the previous team or the current were wrong. I think that a new owner, keeping the brand and its aura, could completely transform this company into a real money printing machine. Look for instance what difference someone like Satia Nadella made to Microsoft in just a couple of years compared to the Ballmer years. I think Facebook’s management and policy is what is preventing this company to fly.

        • Andrew Jakobs

          You’re talking bullocks, the good people in there have all the money and support they need. It’s your closeminded hate for Facebook that’s distorting your sense of reality when it comes to Oculus. If ‘the good people in there’ didn’t like what they are doing, then they can just walk away, there are more than enough other companies that want them.. but nope they stay by themselves because they like it there..

          • Me

            There’s no hate, just a complete disagreement with the vision Facebook has for VR, The way they envision social relationships is what make todays world so selfish, superficial, and lacking humanity.

          • Andrew Jakobs

            again, that’s what you think…

        • David Herrington

          The company that makes the Rift HMD is the whole issue, without Zenimax’s code it doesn’t track. The good people at Oculus aren’t the issue.

          Unless Oculus comes up with a new HMD or software bundle to run Rift, then they are screwed.

          • Me

            I’m pretty sure they would be able to figure out a solution, they have enough geniuses in there.

          • David Herrington

            If they could have created a solution don’t you think they would have implemented it by now and stopped using the Zenimax code??

          • Sponge Bob

            this will soon become open source
            commodity that is

    • Stop being an idiot.

      • Me

        An idiot calling someone else an idiot with an idotic statement. Your nickname checks.

    • Andrew Jakobs

      oh please get real.. because you don’t like facebook doesn’t mean they don’t make good use of all the valuable assets.. it’s because of facebook Oculus can actually do something.

    • Sell 50% to Zeni…

    • Sponge Bob

      what “valuable” assets ???

  • fuyou2

    Zenimax = Cunts No Other Way To Put It.. Without Oculus, VR today would have been non-existent.

    • Sponge Bob

      without Luckey to be precise
      and VR existed back in the 90s, just not for everyone

    • David Herrington

      Zenimax is the one of the only reasons Rift works today.

      “Luckey’s prototype did not provide a virtual reality experience. Among other things, it had no ability to track a user’s movements or change what the user saw based on where the user looked.”

      From the Brief in Support from the case (longer read): http://www.duetsblog.com/files/2017/03/Zenimax-Brief-in-support-of-injunction-motion.pdf

      Oculus is the issue here. Oculus took a whole PC from Zenimax to Oculus offices and copied it. Then a day after the subpoenas went out for the lawsuit Carmack “Accidentally” securely wiped his drive.

      https://www.pcgamesn.com/john-carmack-googled-how-to-wipe-a-hard-drive

    • NooYawker

      Lucky got lucky that Carmack chose his project to work on. Lucky basically duct tape some screens on a motion detector. Carmack brought something solid to the table and the money followed Carmacks new project.
      Zenimax lacked the insight and vision to see Carmacks work on VR as valuable.. until he made it into something real.

      • Get Schwifty!

        That pretty much sums it up – I’d give a bit more credit to Luckey though for also seeing the advantage of forming a company to even start to sell VR ….

  • Mane Vr

    what pisses me off the most about this is the money being spent to fight Zenimax could have gone to a new game being funded.. Zenimax has ported 2 games and made 1 for vr all while oculus has funded countless games and Zenimax has the nerv to act as if they done more for vr. and trying to kill oculus like as if there is a lot of companys out there funding games to replace oculus if they fall out of vr

    • Sponge Bob

      Do not worry

      the genie is out of the bottle so octopus does not matter at all

      I mean it – at all

      • Mane Vr

        I guess u having been reading how vc are cutting back on the the funding for vr games they r saying the ROI isn’t worth it. So yes we need the funding fb is giving to vr u guys keep thinking vr has made it and we going to have a flood of games but that isn’t the case if fb 500 mil is taken out of mix good luck getting VC to pick up that short fall

        • Sponge Bob

          of course vcs are cutting back on funding stupid non-consequential vr games cause with the current install base they can’t make any profit – too few buyers

          BUT What does it have to do with VR as an enabling technology destined to change fields like education, entertainment, porn (YES! porn) and countless others forever ???

          • Tommel

            IMO, it has a lot to do with it. I also feel that many big companies (see Microsoft) as well as players, journalists etc. are very cautious or even pessimistic when it comes to VR. They all know the potential (at least, this is what they say), but there are simply no games and no community and blabla. So someone has to change it… for instance, by producing really good games for a rather small community. And Oculus/FB is really doing a great job here. Mage’s Tale is really awesome and just this weekend we had the Echo Arena beta which was simply an amazing experience. I like Bethesda and I like Steam with all the Indie-titles, but the more innovative and professionally produced stuff comes from FB/Oculus atm. Of course, this might change (I am expecting something cool from Valve in the near future). But atm it would really be a great loss if FB lost interest in VR. Not only for Oculus-users

          • SharingIsCool
          • Sponge Bob

            “deep, hard look” indeed :-)

          • Mane Vr

            Huh all i was saying was that the money fb is spending on the case could of gone more into their vr investments. And vc has cut back on vr investments beyond just games they are switching to Ar

          • Sponge Bob

            AR ???
            VR is not even here yet and it’s much much easier than AR

          • Mane Vr

            But people see more money in ar they r losing money in vr and looking for the next pokemon go that is y Ar is apple and MS main focus

    • Pepitopalotes

      Die oculus die :) Closed platform must die :)

    • yag

      “the money could have gone to a new game being funded”
      You mean 10 AAA games !

      • Mane Vr

        Right cause 10 is enough. Man what was i thinking here it is what i want more bit 10 is all we need

        • yag

          10 AAA games is what you can make with with 500 $M

          • Mane Vr

            o I think I see where you r going with this now..

  • DinoHunter

    Fuck ZeniMax! We should all boycott em!

    They suck and have always treated their customers like crap. Now they trying to stick it to Oculus customers to. To heck with them! Just another reason to avoid this company and all their business ventures like the plague. They do not care about the end user or the experience. They only care about their pockets.

    They won half a billion bucks. they should just keep it and shut up now and go do something else. This is type of stuff that backfires and kills your company in the gaming world. They will forever be known as the cunts who tried to stop cool shit from coming out on VR!

    • Sponge Bob

      they haven’t been paid yet … might take another 5 years (court appeal etc)
      thus – they are pushing for injunction
      welcome to usa

  • Joe Black

    Its a crying shame that both id software and Bethesda are involved with such a putrid conglomerate.

  • Judy Tyrer

    If Facebook wins, what will that precedent mean for software developers?

    Ubisoft makes a game that EA wants. EA pays an Ubi employee to steal the technology and open its own business. EA then buys that business, sues and wins because of this precedent and can now profit off the work stolen from Ubisoft. (Using these companies merely as example, not implying anything here so pick any two companies you want).

    The ramifications of this case are HUGE and will disrupt industries with Patents and Copyrights in ways I’m not convinced those advocating they win have thought through.

    So unless you’re ready to give away all your IP rights, you should be hoping they lose.