As the launch of Oculus Touch approaches later this year, the company is sticking firm to its plan to focus on standing, front-facing VR experiences for motion input. Though it’s claimed that Touch can match the ‘roomscale’ tracking of the HTC Vive, Oculus is skeptical that such a large tracking space will appeal widely to customers.

Ever since announcing Touch back in 2015, Oculus has officially demonstrated their VR motion controller in a front-facing configuration, where two sensors are placed on a desk in front of the user four or five feet apart. With this setup, 360 degree VR experiences become impractical, as a user turning their back to the sensors are likely to block sight of the controllers in their hands.

dead-and-buried
Oculus demonstrates Touch with mats below the user to indicate the recommended playspace.
See Also: ‘Dead & Buried’ Could be the Killer App Oculus Touch Needs

As such, Oculus has encouraged its developers to build Touch experiences that keep the user facing forward, and within a ‘standing’ playspace (offering a few steps on either side).

Meanwhile, the approach of the competing HTC Vive is to have users place trackers in opposite corners up to 16.4 feet apart, which enables a ‘roomscale’ playspace that tracks users in 360 degrees, and gives them roughly an 11×11 foot space around which to walk.

HTC-Vive-room-scale-room-empty
A room made roomscale-ready for the HTC Vive

The difference in approach has lead to accusations that Oculus’ ‘Constellation’ tracking technology is less capable and therefore unable to provide the same roomscale functionality as the HTC Vive. That put Oculus in an awkward spot; they needed to defend the capabilities of their system without abandoning their decision to focus on the creation of front-facing VR experiences.

According to Jason Rubin, Oculus’ Head of Content, the question is not if Touch could do roomscale, but if it should. Speaking with Road to VR at Gamescom 2016 this week in Germany, Rubin elaborated on the reasons for the company’s focus on standing, front-facing VR experiences for Touch.

SEE ALSO
Oculus' 12 Days of Rift Sweepstakes Could Win You a New Rift

“[Touch is] fully capable of providing a room-scale experience. In fact, room-scale isn’t really defined. There’s two parts to it: One is being able to turn 360 degrees. What you’ve seen in most of the [Touch] demos today is like a 270 degree experience because you [block the sensor’s view of your hand] when you turn backwards,” he said. “The second part of room-scale is: ‘I can walk around a lot.’ We’re a little less positive that this is absolutely necessary for VR for a lot of reasons.”

See Also: Latest Version of Touch has Better Tracking & Longer Range, Says Oculus
A progression of Oculus Touch prototypes
See Also: Latest Version of Touch has Better Tracking & Longer Range, Says Oculus

Rubin spoke to the notion that roomscale may not be practical for everyone, in regions which tend to have smaller rooms or homes (a fair concern also raised by Road to VR’s UK-based Senior Editor, Paul James).

“The last interview I gave was an Italian journalist who lived in Rome, and he said: ‘I like the fact that I can play [an Oculus Touch game] and get a whole experience and I don’t have to walk around, because in Rome, you can’t afford an apartment that can do room-scale. It’s too expensive.’ And Rome is as expensive as Tokyo, and San Francisco, and London,” Rubin said. “People from these cities aren’t really sure that roomscale is going to be dominant. What I would say is: we support it, we’re fully capable of it, we’ll probably support full 360, we may support roomscale, but it will not be required to have a fantastic time in VR.”

oculus-rift-sensors
See Also: Update Opens the Door for Enhanced Roomscale Tracking with Rift and Touch

Despite asserting that the system is capable, Rubin says the company continues to focus development effort on front-facing experiences in a standing playspace.

SEE ALSO
The 5 Best Games for Oculus Rift

“We are asking our [Touch] developers to develop for the front-facing setup in mind because we think a lot of people will have that setup. Beyond that, we don’t restrict our developers, and if they don’t want to support that, we’re okay with that too,” he said. “We’re just dubious that people are going to set aside a four by three meter area outside of developers and a core audience … we don’t want developers to go out there and find they don’t have an audience.”

This is a sticky issue for Oculus; whether or not Touch is “technically” capable of roomscale tracking, it’s Oculus’ configuration recommendation that developers (especially those the company is supporting) and users are likely to follow. Switching back and forth from two sensors on a desk in front of you to opposing sensors in each corner of the room is not a particularly smooth task, and thus users are likely to lean toward buying games of one configuration over another, which of course means developers will favor the leading setup, possibly causing some level of fragmentation among Touch games distributed through Oculus Home.

There’s no telling how much such fragmentation might impact the platform, or if it would be more or less than fragmentation caused by varying room sizes among SteamVR/HTC Vive users. With SteamVR’s support for the Oculus Rift and Touch, and Oculus seeming to doubt the size of the total addressable market for roomscale VR users, it’s possible that Oculus will continue to focus only on front-facing, standing experiences, and leave much of the roomscale market to SteamVR.

SEE ALSO
Oculus Quest Touch Controllers Hit FCC Preceding Spring 2019 Launch

We’re expecting to hear much more about Touch (and likely a more firm picture of Oculus’ playsapce recommendation) at the company’s ‘Connect’ developer conference in October.


Additional reporting by Scott Hayden

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  • PK

    I keep hearing the Rift is capable of room-scale, but without the front facing camera how to you keep from running into walls? That to me seems to be a basic requirement.

    • Westbrock

      You should take a look at “Dimensional”. Its an Oculus Game available on steam and already has roomscale for the Oculus. The way it works is pretty easy. You start the game and walk around the Space you have to move. The Game will remember that. Played it a lot without ever crashing into my furniture!-)

      • PK

        Hmm, good point, yeah I guess the the only essential use of the camera is to see new objects that get in your way, which is a feature of the Vive I never actually use.

        • Kalle

          yepp, because physical obstacles magically appear in your area while you are playing?

          • Thornfoot

            If you have cats or children they do!

          • Andrew Jakobs

            but the camera doesn’t actually detect a cat or a child…

          • Kalle

            True, still I wouldn’t play in VR if noone else was home to watch a such young child that could accidentally stumble into the area. A child that young could easily hurt itself on something else while you are in your VR world not doing your parenting job. That’s very irresponsible and I hope you two are more responsible than that. A cat on the other hand, there you have a point.

    • OkinKun

      It’s not hard to use the Steam Chaperone. You don’t NEED a front camera, the chaperone software can still remember the size and layout of a room, and warn you when you’re close to a wall.. An onboard camera is only really useful for things that might move, like pets or chairs.

    • Thornfoot

      The Rift will work with Steam’s chaperone roomscale boundary system. It turns out the camera is not that effective for use avoiding things anyways.

    • Buddydudeguy

      Speaking of basic….just put a rug under your feet. Acts as a marker.

    • Andrew Jakobs

      You forget Valve’s Chaperone system was first developed on the Oculus Rift (well at least for public SteamVR), later they added the camera function..

  • Muddy

    So glad I chose Vive. Oculus have lost the plot.

    • tvguy

      Totally agree.

    • It’s just that Oculus is scared to death of lawsuits. They probably think HTC and Valve are crazy to allow people to walk all around their rooms.

      • TheBileStoad

        In b4 chaperone…but Oculus don’t need to bother with what that is

        • Kalle

          chaperone works on the oculus too. And it does roomscale as good as the vive, check RealityCheckVR videos on youtube.

        • OkinKun

          I think the possibility of a lawsuit still exists, regardless of chaperone. If someone wants to try to find a way to sue over this, they will. :/

    • Kalle

      I think both headsets are just as good. Vive was a bit earlier with their controllers. But other than that it’s about the same. Already proven the rift with touch is just as good as the vive on roomscale: Check the RealityCheckVR videos at youtube. somehow the link get’s screwed up.

    • Buddydudeguy

      haha. Explain?

  • Brandodactyl

    I really do think that the Oculus team is thinking about the long-term when it comes to hardware. Their industrial design is really something else.

    • DiGiCT Ltd

      On a long term there will be cheaper HMD on the market with no roomscale.
      They already exist but they are not mentioned here.

  • tvguy

    Room scale is not necessary for vr, but it is absolutely essential for GOOD vr. Try walking around your own arcade with New Retro Arcade: Neon. Play A Chair in a Room, and many others. Without room scale, these games would be as boring as playing Lucky’s Tale on the Rift. Room scale makes vr games much more immersive. I’m so thankful that I purchased a Vive, particularly as we also have the choice to play Rift games using Revive. It’s good to have the best of both worlds!

    • Ned Hoon

      “Reality Check VR” go to youtube and check out his videos on rift touch roomscale.

    • Charles

      Actually, what would be better than room scale is a good VR treadmill system.

      • tvguy

        Yes! Virtuix Omni!

        • Charles

          Yep, though the Omni has some drawbacks that need to be fixed – your movement is more limited than it would otherwise be. You can’t crouch very low, you can’t lie down, you can’t sit on the floor, and the outer edge can get in the way of hand movement. Once these issues are somehow fixed, then room scale will be completely obsolete.

          With what’s available now, I prefer standing in one spot and holding a button to move forwards/backwards in the direction I’m facing, while walking in place. I haven’t tried the Omni yet, but I don’t like how it has those limitations I mentioned.

          • RipVoid

            Room scale wouldn’t matter if the right treadmill was developed but for now they create as many problems as they solve.

  • “Switching back and forth from two sensors on a desk in front of you to opposing sensors in each corner of the room is not a particularly smooth task, and thus users are likely to lean toward buying games of one configuration over another”

    Why would they need to switch back and forth? Surely the cameras could be left in 360 configuration?

    • Ned Hoon

      Im planning on a wide front facing setup with the ability to move one sensor if I want roomscale.Cant see myself having any issues at all I will just have two mount points for the second sensor and instead of facing forwards between the two sensors I will rotate to face a single sensor.

      • I mean, if each camera offers 270° of coverage, placed correctly, two would be able to cover an impossible 540°. There aren’t even that many degrees!? What would you do with the extra 180°?!? That seems like the real problem here…

    • Maxime Pare

      I would just buy a 3rd camera and leave it at the back

      • Ghosty

        Buy 3 cameras and the touch controllers and that kit will cost more than a Vive! Lol

        Heck I wouldn’t be surprised if the Oculus cost basically the same as the Vive after buying touch separately anyway!

        I am all about room scale and I am very happy I went with the Vive… I do think that omni directional treadmills will eventually replace roomscale but that it’s still a ways off… Maybe by 2nd or 3rd Gen…

        Oculus is missing the point and again not listening to us users… They think they know best… But their tracking is inferior to lighthouse… And I would be shocked if they don’t go with a completely different tracking system for Gen 2!

        • Touch comes with the necessary additional camera(s). Even still, if price parity with Vive is your biggest complaint…

        • Aaron Hillaker

          Lighthouse tracking isn’t any better. People need to stop saying that. They’re almost the same quality.

          • DoubleD

            The tracking part is probably equal.
            But Lighthouse has the advantage that it only require electricity, unlike the oculus cameras which need a long cable running over the floor to be plugged in to a USB in the computer.
            This makes it easier to do big room scaling.

          • Aaron Hillaker

            That is like, such a small thing. You buy some usb extensions and run them on the ceiling, wall or floor. It’s really not that hard/bad.

          • Get Schwifty!

            Especially when you factor in a better controller design, the problem of an extra cable or the need for a wireless USB extender is not that big a problem.

          • Get Schwifty!

            Not much of an advantage, a cheap USB wireless setup will solve that problem.

            http://www.flexihub.com/usb-over-wifi.html#USB

      • Don’t be so reasonable

  • VRDRUMMER

    Not only that.. But their cable lengths are not great in terms for room scale. They are short and designed as desktop cables….Also I can tell you right now personally I am not dropping the cash for 3 more cameras and the touch controllers too… That would easily be another $500.
    I have the Vive for my room scale needs..
    It seems the cart has been before the horse so to speak for all of Oculus CV1 launch and current status and 2016 controller release plans.. Sux…
    Unless, I am utterly floored to the universe and back by the CV2 design whenever that maybe I will not buy into their next launch release. And I always get launch products..

    • I… really don’t think it will be another $500

    • Ned Hoon

      I already have a 5m active usb 3 extension in place ready for my second sensor.

      • Tad Springer

        Same here. :)

    • OkinKun

      The cable is long enough to mostly reach across a 12ft x 12ft space, just fine.

      And you do NOT have to buy 3 more cameras. 1 come with the HMD, 1 camera comes WITH Touch. And you don’t need to buy anymore. You only need 2 to accomplish small room-scale flawlessly, 3 or 4 is only for redundancy and larger spaces.

    • Kalle

      A funny and idiotic post. Probably cause: fanboyism.

      Why would you need 3 more cameras? Setup the cameras as the Vive cameras and you’ll good to go. Want longer cables? Ever heard of extension cables?

      • DiGiCT Ltd

        He makes a point that a vive is already Roomscale ready, a rift is not, unless you take a lot of extra efford.
        Many ppl dont know how to modify a setup as they use a device as it is made and delivered.
        Not everyone is a guru.

        • Kalle

          Yes, but the Vive is quite alot more expensive. When you buy the Touch, you get one extra camera included which then makes it “roomscale”-ready (for probably the same cost as the Vive), no need for more. Just because you can add more, doesn’t mean you have to or are required.

          Also I do think everyone who buy’s a VR headset knows how to move a camera from one place to another.

      • VRDRUMMER

        Such a sad and immature, obviously ignorant individual. One whom makes observations and attacks without doing research. One who can’t even look at a photo posted in the very article before making a stupid response. I don’t get into your simpleton state of mind and fanboy gaggle.
        I support and purchase all platforms to draw the best from everything! Try it sometime if you can be part of the group.
        Let me explain to you Oculus and Vive tracking.
        Vive lighthouses works off of sweeping Horizonal and Verticle lasers that make contact with the sensors on the Vive head set and controllers, so they aren’t cameras, okay? Next, Oculus Camera tracking works of off LED sensor. Their are written articles for you to research and videos that you can watch where they setup 2 oculus cameras and two vive lighthouse setup but the oculus it did not cover the same room scale as Vive lighthouse in fact it was less of a space covered, because the camera/sensors weren’t making contact with the back of the headset. But with a total of four oculus cameras indeed it was then it was the ideal room scale setup.
        Cable extension? The whole point of my post was not wanting the price of the Oculus to get expensive on a piece mill build. Meaning: Oculus touch controllers, 3 additional cameras, cable extensions etc.

        • Kalle

          Yes it was an immature post, I can agree with that. But I think yours was too. In your new post you say quite a lot of bad things about me, and after that you say that you don’t get into that state of mind. How do that fit?

          No one is forcing you to buy extra cameras just because you can or they are in a picture. And I thought you knew that, that’s why I thought your post was a typical disguised troll post. Sorry for that.

          You talk about research and videos, have you checked out the ones “RealityCheckVR” makes on youtube? In his camera test one camera tracked a distance around 4.5m. Two in opposite corners would make a fine setup no matter which way you face your HMD.

          You get one camera extra when you buy the touch. That is enough, it’s been proved again and again. You can add extra cameras for bigger space or a second space, how is that a bad thing? But you don’t have to.

  • VR Geek

    I think Oculus has made a bad decision and seem to have too much corporate pride to address head on. Jason’s comments in particular feel like a sales person desperately trying to make their product sound comparable when they full well know it is not. Come on Oculus…give yourself a shake. Your strategy puts you in the same class as Google Daydream in many ways but with more graphic horse power. If you are already invested in more graphic horsepower, you are going to want room scale at somepoint. We have both the Rift and ViVe and the Rift is collecting dust sadly. Not seeing Touch changing that as facing forward is just so limiting. Sure NOT every game needs or even should be room scale, but I have had the most fun by far when it is. Just other day I was playing Paint Ball in the Red Room and got utterly immersed in it as if I was there in that arena. I worked up such a sweat that I realized room scale is great for fitness. Forward facing cannot do this. Sorry to the fraction of the world’s population in cities like Rome, Tokyo, San Francisco, and London….you are going to have to find a VR Arcade like MOST of China is planning on doing…and I predict you will want to. Heck, my wife and I cleared out our entire living room for the ViVe as it is so worth it. Maybe the Virtuix Omni treadmill or similar are going to make this all a mute point though. What do you think?

    • Kalle

      I would like both types of games. Since the Rift supports “roomscale” and you can currently play all roomscale games on SteamVR with the touch using the same camerasetup as the vive without any problems. This have been proven so many times. It’s only the ones with almost religious hate against Oculus that do not acknowledge this, and that’s not really healthy.

      They are not forcing any developers to do front-facing, they are just recommending it from a selling POV. As they say in the article, if the devs do not want to follow that recommendation, they are not needed to do that. It’s up to the DEVS. Kinda big difference.

      Cool wife you have, mine is not into gaming and would not think it would be “fun” if our livingroom suddenly was empty. ;)

      • VR Geek

        ViVe is not a gaming system to my wife. It is an art and exploration system. VR is not about gaming either…it is just one aspect. When the dust settles I am certain the audience of VR will be no different than that of a regular PC or TV. People have dedicated spaces for TV(s) for decades now without batting an eye as the value is so clearly there for the whole household. As VR/AR/MR matures, the same will be true for this tech too.

        • Kalle

          Well it may be an art and exploration system for her. But sadly my wife doesn’t see it like that, and I don’t blame her. The current portfolio is quite limited. I agree that the future seems great, but sadly I live in CEST ;)

    • DiGiCT Ltd

      You just saved me a lot of typing, you are right.
      I vivisted yesterday an exhibition here in China and they had showcases for VR entertainemnt Arcade, including those machines for VR.

      So here the result :

      1. 80% was HTC vive sets been used because of their tracking system be needed (Roomscale)
      2. for the rollercoaster and bicycle , skieng and devices like 4d cinema they rather used depoon HMD (Chinese ) as they are even lighter as a Rift and cheaper too, but no gamepads or trackers with exeption of headtracking like phone does.
      If they need controllers they are on the machine on fixed spots like eg joysticks.
      3. I seen just a very few rifts been used and those were actualy front faced games.
      I must say they where really hard to find as the chinese brands can do already the part what a rift does without the camera tracker.
      This is not needed for many Arcade deployments so Rift looses opertunity in this area for sure.

      The real power is in Vive tracking system, even when Rift could do it or not is not the point.
      The point is making similar with Rift takes more USB ports , more camera’s, more wires which makes it all user unfriendly.
      Their statement is correct as it was never their purpose to make roomscale at all.
      Just accept their design and dont try to straighten it up.
      Vive is designed for roomscale and Rift is NOT, thats what they want to say.

      • “chinese brands can do already the part what a rift does without the camera tracker”

        Which brand?

        • DiGiCT Ltd

          they use deepoon a lot on exhibitions.
          The headset is realy light and the screen quality is realy not bad at all.

          https://www.aliexpress.com/item/DEEPOON-E2-1080-1920-1080p-Full-HD-Virtual-Reality-Helmet-3D-Video-Glasses-for-PC-Analog/32533919788.html?spm=2114.10010108.0.75.dqnlPK

          For mobile VR they got an awesome gamers concept but its still not out for consumers yet, last week been used by VW to show their new car.
          http://www.picovr.com/en/index.html

          hope it help you.

        • DiGiCT Ltd

          deepoon is one of them
          The other hybrid and unique one is called PICO NEO.
          http://www.picovr.com/en/index.html

          very interesting VR product but not yet here on RTVR site.

          • Apologies, I thought you meant there was a brand that could do positional tracking without a camera.

            Deepon seems cool, 120° FOV is exceptional if presented well, though at 1080p. I’m just not sure what besides that would recommend it over OSVR when considering the support, upgradeable components, Leap Motion, and existing community OSVR offers.

            Pico Neo is a very neat concept. Offloading processing to the gamepad is a great way to reduce the weight of the headset, though I do think they should’ve considered making it modular so the core unit could still be easily pocketed for room scale while also allowing for dual analog sticks to be attached to each side for standard mode. If it works well with Steam VR and the price holds, it seems like a very interesting device.

      • VR Zone BKK

        Thanks for these precious informations, very helpful to me, cheers m8 :)

        • DiGiCT Ltd

          Glad to hear m8 ;)

    • Andrew Jakobs

      And what is the roomsize you did this ‘roomscale’ game in?

  • REP

    This is why Oculus is a failure because you have leadership that still don’t believe room scale is a big deal. Unless you never play room scale at all but if you did and come away not convinced at the experience, you’re an idiot. Standing VR is just lame. It is so limited that i don’t even think about trying it.

    • OkinKun

      “Failure”? They’re still selling better than the Vive, last we heard.
      You’d be a fool to think the guys at Oculus haven’t tried every form of VR out there. You do not know better than them. And they’re not against room-scale, they just aren’t focusing on it. They leave that up to developers, and there are already TONS of room-scale Vive games, that will work just fine on Touch.

      • DiGiCT Ltd

        Rift is not better than vive at all.
        And where you got the acurate data they sell better.
        I used them both and the rifts “better” parts are not better at all, more like not noticable.
        Especially the ergonomics, more leight i dont feel it when i emerged, what i feel however is that i need to force my glasses into a rift , in which a vive goes smoothly.
        Rift is 2nd as it lacks functionality compared to vive.

        • OkinKun

          Lacks what functionality, how so? All it lacks is the on-board camera, and that’s not all that important when there are other chaperone methods.
          O_o And frankly, I don’t believe you. It is highly unlikely someone making a post like that has ever used an Oculus Touch.
          The Rift is simply better overall, especially once Touch comes out. Better built, better polished, lighter/smaller, more ergonomic. The Touch controllers achieve much better hand-presence, and have basic finger tracking, and CAN do full 360 room scale, just like the Vive can. Plus, the Rift will always have more games available to it, since it can play every SteamVR game, as well as everything on Oculus Home. ;P

          • DiGiCT Ltd

            Yes smaller makes it worse as i am wearing glasses.
            More games does not matter, its about good games and as you know there is a lot of rubbish in the shop, as well as on Oculus home as well as on Steam so your statement on amount is having no value at all.
            Secondly nobody is goin gto buy them all too.
            Be happy with your touch lol and that what you be stuck with afterall.
            Lucky enough HTC/Valve just opened their lighthouse tech for HW devs so you can expect more lighthouse tracked VR accessories coming for Lighthouse.
            I seen a few of them already in early development.

            If you still feel the headset and /or the controllers when you are in VR then you dont immerse good enough, which means the content you are using is not good enough designed to let you feel what VR should be.

            I did wear and play with a lot of devices already, as i am in China where most of those equipment be manufactured.
            There are more exhibitions here as there are in the US or even Europe.
            Next to this i have close contacts to those companies in VR and AR.
            Oculus is lacking functionality for sure, especially expansion possibilities.
            Both on rift as well as on Gear VR they both come since launch with bad controllers.
            Just give it some time and you will see the rift with roomscale only works optimal with more as 2 sensors.
            PSVR uses similar tracking tech and it has sometimes drifting, same for OSVR.
            Videos on youtube from people showing it can do as a vive does not say anything, you can only do your own setup with those controllers to find it out.

            I still see so many America product lovers, and deny the reality.
            They dont make the best products in the world anymore, they dont have the most money and they dont own the world.
            Just be realistic and honest and dont try to fix something that was not finished from the start already.
            It is the same as saying a boeing 747 can fly like a jet fighter by modifying the engines.
            It might do it , but it was not designed for it and problems can come later.
            overclocking CPU and VGA and all those stuff might work but never optimal, all those cases result in something normal end users will never go into.
            Take a product as it is and dont try to make it better, as its not what the product is in reality.

          • OkinKun

            I REALLY don’t care at all about Country of Origin for products. It makes no difference. And HTC as a company is doing terribly, and won’t be able to make it once there’s more HMD competition. Many in the VR community have discussed this.
            “Lucky enough HTC/Valve just opened their lighthouse tech for HW devs so you can expect more lighthouse tracked VR accessories coming for Lighthouse.”
            Well yes, Valve owns Lighthouse, and THEY were the ones who recently opened up Lighthouse’s tech for others, not HTC. HTC does not want Lighthouse open. Before this, Valve had a deal with HTC, to keep it closed for them temporarily, for a period of time. Now that time is over. And we’re most certainly going to see other/better companies make their own Lighthouse based HMDs, that compete with the Vive. And this also means Oculus could soon offer their own HTC Vive support on Home.
            And you are comparing the WRONG things about the 2 Systems. I’m only saying that Touch is goes farther into VR, than Vive’s controllers do. Touch is as close to VR gloves as a controller can get, and still be a controller. Finger tracking and the increased hand-presence that Touch’s ergonomics force, trick your hands much farther into VR immersion. They are a more advanced controller, simply BECAUSE they are better designed/shaped with the right input functions, that Vive does not have. And other than that, the HMDs compare almost equally, some areas better, some maybe worse for some people… But OVERALL, as I kept saying, I believe the Oculus Rift + Touch are a better system, more futuristic, go farther into VR.
            Vive doesn’t have proper finger gestures, it doesn’t have 1:1 hand-line-up presence. It can works as a tool controller fine, but it feels clunky when you try to make it work as Direct hands. Touch excels at that. But other than that, the Rift and Vive are relatively equal, and will soon both be capable of the exact same type of room-scale games.
            I don’t understand how people can find weird reasoning to claim that’s not true. lol
            Yes, the Vive is good too, and heck, they made it to market first, when it comes to room-scale.. But that doesn’t matter, because VR is still taking off slowly. And as a developer, I’ve chosen to work with the Rift, and I’ll be using the Touch’s functionality in my games soon, and not really focusing much on porting it to Vive, because it lacks some features I like, and would likely require remapping controls for odd stuff.

          • DiGiCT Ltd

            Good to Hear, whats the game called you are working on ? Any links so I can follow your progresss.

            Ours is called XoRRoX and will be opening the dev blog soon at http://www.digict.asia if you want to see what we are working on.
            Unfortunately only for vive at the start as it cant be played with a gamepad at all.
            https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/8cd2dcd0a7be855b0a9c5ac436debbdbea75d021cca11c5edcf5c9b2574352fe.jpg

    • Bob

      Failure? Jesus another Vive fanboy lurking around.

    • Andrew Jakobs

      there is a difference between roomscale and roomscale… To me most of the demo’s I see with the Vive is nothing more than ‘standing VR’ and not real roomscale.. Real roomscale is where I can actually really move around, and I’m not talking about 2 meters in every direction, I’m talking about at least 5 meters, but sorry, I don’t have a room that’s actually large enough for such a thing..
      With ‘standing VR’ Oculus is refering to moving about (crouching etc) in a tiny square, which is what 90% of the people have room for.

      And the reason for frontfacing VR has, I think, more to do with cablemanagement etc..

  • Miqa

    I think this is a good move by Oculus. While I don’t agree on the front facing limit (rather prefer a full 360 setup), full roomscale makes little sense. I want my virtual worlds to be large or infinite, not restricted by the size of my room. I you want the actual feeling of walking, an Omni or equal product will be required.

  • RipVoid

    Oculus should have more confidence in the disruptive nature of their technology. People didn’t need a garage until they had a car.

    • MrPoletski

      Now they are gonna sell their car to buy into VR and re-purpose their empty garage.

      • RipVoid

        I agree. As the ‘car as a service’ model comes on, homes will have some extra space.

      • Peter S

        Oculus are selling a car that only goes in one direction .

    • Charles

      But they needed a stable.

      • RipVoid

        The point is that people will make room in their homes for a compelling technology. Oculus claims to have the capability and they clearly have customers that are interested but they are taking the odd position of actively discouaging room scale development for Rift.

        They are positioning Rift to compete with PSVR and giving Vive the high end of the market. Perhaps this suggests more focus on integration with Xbox and console gaming?

        • Charles

          Maybe that’s what they’re doing. And maybe they’re also more interested in treadmills like the Virtuix Omni. Or maybe they want to standardize the play style that I prefer – standing in one spot and holding a button to move forwards/backwards in
          the direction I’m facing, while walking in place.

          • RipVoid

            And all that is fine but why discourage room scale? Why completely abandon the people that want to play that way when their system is capable of it? Wouldn’t they sell more headsets by embracing both?

    • John Leonard

      what? I have a car and no need for a garage. Stupid logic!”!!

      • RipVoid

        Its not logic, it’s just an example of cultural adoption of technology.

        • Cl

          Well, i understand what he means… in your example you dont need a garage, but its better if you have it. Same with roomscale. You dont need it, but its better. I have a garage but dont put my car in it.

          I think the biggest problem is the fact they released oculus with a gamepad to get it out quicker. Microsoft had the right idea trying to bundle kinect with every xbox, but the technology wasnt good enough to justify it, thats why i think it failed.

          Now that oculus comes with a gamepad i think this is why their motion controller tries to emulate one. So now devs can just make games with a gamepad in mind if they want and ignore motion controls. I dont think that should even be an option. Vive did it right.

          Anyway, about roomscale and standing experiences i dont see what the big deal is. Both oculus and vive can do either one. So devs have the opportunity to do whichever they want for their games. I dont see how anything is being limited. Unless oculus isnt as good at roomscale as they make it out to be.

    • wowgivemeabreak

      I understand what you are saying.

      Speaking of garages though, you need to come see where I live as 90% of the people around me use their garage to store crap from inside their house. I’m one of the few that actually uses my garage for my car and I live in an area that has decent sized houses. People just have too much crap they hold onto.

    • James Abrahams

      People who live in the cities and places he mentioned that can’t afford room scale. Also will tend not to afford a garage! (I saw a space in a garage in Kensington go for £300,000).

      Its not really a useful analogy because with cars you don’t really need them I places like Rome and london

      • tarao

        Well, you don´t need room scale to play VR, you can get Vive and just play standing or seated, but you are missing the best part, as you will with oculus.

    • lbjack

      Good analogy. But that’s assuming the nature of VR is settled as the creation of a virtual space in which the user acts. If the nature of VR is settled as a user proxy, then movement isn’t necessary. Movement implies interaction with the space, and right now that interaction is manifest in games and sims. But VR, in my view, is far more than these. Hate to use the jargon, but it’s about ontology, the sensation of –being– somewhere outside oneself. I think that’s what people are looking for in VR. Not doing space battles but –being– the astronaut that lands on Mars, –being– the President delivering the State of the Union, –being– an eagle soaring at altitude, –being– your wife giving birth (without the pain, thank you).

      In other words, my thinking about VR all my life has been as a way to network experience, not as a game space. This is where I think Zuck and co. are headed. They want everybody connected not by chatting or photos but, right now, by live video. Then they will be ready to make live video totally immersive. When VR is applied to live video, we will be networking not just images but lives. Of course, there will be the actors and the audience, and the tendency, as television has shown, for a few to act and for the masses to watch passively except for responding to commercials. If VR can be thought of as a holo-deck, a recreation, then It can also be thought of as, “We are the Borg. You will be assimilated.”

      So again, your garage analogy is valid as far as these first uses for VR — games and sims — go. But I believe that the impact of VR is going to be far more profound than games and sims, than cars and garages. Our retinas will be wired to transmit and receive each other’s visual inputs at will. (Other senses will be similarly wired.). We’ll become a hive or perhaps even subsumed in a great undifferentiated consciousness, yes, the Borg, though I trust a benevolent version. Of course, we are nowhere near that omega point, but I think that’s where Zuck & co. are aiming us: the integration of virtual reality and the social network.

    • No metaphor is perfect, but I enjoy this one and I’d like to give it a stretch if I can. In fairness, it took quite a while for the automobile to be adopted, in part because it was an exotic, scary, futuristic sci-fi gadget to many people.

      A garage, while very nice if one owns a car, is a substantial additional investment. Although motorized carriage manufacturers surely knew such a “car hole” would maximize the enjoyment of this purchase, they no doubt realized that focusing too much attention on an increase in cost and real estate acquisition would also have inevitably “slowed their roll”, and further stymied interest in their fantastical contraption.

      So you see, the core use of the thing remains, and while adoption snowballs towards a critical mass of consumer awareness and experience of the product, the inherent value of further investment becomes apparent. Until then, it may not do to put the horse before the horseless carriage.

  • Get Schwifty!

    I am so tired of the religious postings of “I am so happy I bought a Vive” nonsense, it’s nice that you do, we all want to appreciate our purchase but if you do it because you think Oculus can’t do the same thing (upon the release of quite honestly a superior design for controllers) your kidding yourself or just plain ignorant. Videos on YouTube abound with developers using Touch in in full room-scale VR with no issues, and playing games from Steam no less, so there is none of this “getting the best of both worlds” bias for Vive except for a six-month window. In fact, there are all indications that chaperone will work with Oculus hardware (Touch in every case is more questionable, but very likely devs will patch existing games for it).

    Oculus is recommending front-facing VR, nothing else. Repeatedly and even before the Vive came into being room-scale VR was shown as quite possible with Oculus hardware, it’s just nonsense to hear people acting as though it can’t.

    I will agree that Oculus as a company is not doing themselves or VR adoption any favors ultimately with this position though. Why you wouldn’t sell the idea of being able to do it even if a given game doesn’t support full room-scale VR is beyond me. I have half a suspicion its one of two things 1) some legal nonsense at work in the company by overzealous lawyers trying to defend an early position, or 2) a move to support a revised setup with the camera’s for a 2nd version of Oculus with “now supporting Room-scale” as some kind of selling point.

    We are in the _Very_Early_Days of VR, probably less than 500,000 units are in the wild for both companies combined currently, a lot can change in a short time.

    • Thornfoot

      I own both. imo, The Rift is a better designed headset… But the Vive and roomscale make a much better experience. Enough so that my Rift is a paperweight for now. Until the touch controllers show up, it is not really fair to compare the two. btw, the Vive does the sitting/standing experience just as well as the Rift. Having done both, I much prefer roomscale.

      • Get Schwifty!

        Well of course it does the sitting/standing…. likewise, if one is technical about it, you can do a fair amount of “room scale” with the Rift as is even with one camera. It’s nutty to think there won’t be room scale with the Oculus, in fact it’s very obvious they can support it. I suspect it won’t be very long after the release of Touch controllers that people are doing room scale VR pretty much the same with both and this whole line of reasoning is a distant memory. FWIW, I had both in my possession but returned the Vive since the controllers to me by design are just stand-in. I suspect it won’t be long before HTC apes Oculus’ design, or comes out with a design that is radically different than the current ones.

        • Bradley Lawrence

          I can do a pretty good facsimile of 360 roomscale with my Rift with only 1 sensor by mounting it up high at an oblique angle. So long as I don’t look straight down while facing directly away from the sensor I’m good. Once Touch comes out and I have a second sensor I’ll be good to go in my tiny little roomscale environment. Then I’ll buy a third and possibly fourth sensor to cover every possible angle since in my limited space part of my “roomscale” is actually under my desk.

          Or maybe since my oldest daughter just went off to university I’ll just steal her room.

          yeah…

          • Herman Munster

            Thats…… gonna be a lot more common scenario than lotta folks realize.

        • Jop

          HTC is working on a new controller. The prototypes look nothing like the Oculus Touch or the current Vive controller.

      • Andrew Jakobs

        Then tell me, why not use the Oculus headset with the Vive controllers? or doesn’t it just work using different technologies together, which would be a different problem altogether..

        • DoubleD

          The 2 technologies are completely different.
          Oculus does the more traditional tracking with a camera following the headset.
          Vive’s lighthouse just fills the room with infrared signals and the headset calculates where itself is. Like a ship with 2 lighthouses.

          That said, it should be possible to use both technologies at the same time, but you’ll need both tracking mechanisms installed.

          • That’s interesting, though I suspect any additional infrared signals in the room could disrupt tracking. Even too many fluorescent lights or sunlight can wreak havoc on IR tracking systems.

          • Daniel Kennard

            I have a Kinect for my XBox One and it definitely interferes with tracking if it happens to be on whilst I have the Vive up and running

    • Muddy

      Yes but I’m so glad I chose Vive. Oculus have lost the plot ;)

      • Get Schwifty!

        I would expect no more from you Muddy ;)

    • SlimeQ

      Having once owned both, i can tell you with 100% certainty that oculus’ tracking system is substantially inferior. Yes, you can move around a bit while standing with an oculus, but if you move outside of the ~3x3x3 tracking area the experience breaks down completely as tracking fails. Granted, i was using a single camera, but i find it very hard to believe that introducing a second camera will increase the tracking space significantly.

      Meanwhile with the vive, i can lie down on the floor and actually leave the room completely without so much as a stutter. Yes, i had to move most of my furniture in order to play games when i lived in a one bedroom apartment, but it was completely worth the effort to play hordeZ and holopoint and etc.

      I quickly sold my oculus. While it is definitely more comfortable, what it lacks in tracking capabilities (and motion controllers) made it useless to me for basically anything but virtual desktop… Which vive tends to work better with anyways since it knows where the floor is and has a camera to help me find my drink. I will gladly trade a sweaty face for that.

      I am fully aware that the touch controllers will be superior to the vive wands, but honestly, i don’t care that much. At this point all i really need motion controllers to do is to feel somewhat like the object I’m holding in-game and and have a trigger, a clip eject button, and a thumbstick. Full hand tracking is cool, sure, but absolutely not necessary.

  • Thornfoot

    It is all about marketing and target audience. You simply can’t sell roomscale to the billions of people in China and Taiwan and Korea as well as NYC and most European cities. They just don’t have the space. Even with a large house in the suburbs finding a enough room was difficult. 3×3 meters is a big area, almost garage sized. (my wife is still not happy with my solution and want’s her furniture moved back)
    If you do have the space, roomscale adds a LOT to the experience in games that use it. But if you can’t sell it to people it is a niche dead end, for now. I anticipate a solution in the future, but I don’t know what form it will take.
    However, it is frustrating to watch Oculus downplaying what rooms scale can bring to VR just to further their own sales plans. To see the people that pushed this technology into the mainstream intentionally trying to hold the technology back is truly disappointing.

    • YzaiCreate

      Why are people still saying that the Vive needs a 3×3 or 4×5 metre space. I’m pretty certain valve have always said the minimum for full roomscale is 1.5x2m or something along those lines. I should know, ive just got enough space to fit the minimum and I play almost every roomscale game just fine. Didn’t have to move any furniture at all.

      • Andrew Jakobs

        1.5 by 2 meters is NOT roomscale, that’s the experience Oculus is talking about, you’re standing at one spot with sidestepping etc..

    • Andrew Jakobs

      and 3 by 3 meters isn’t what I call roomscale, as you barely have space to actually move around.. I agree with you completely that most people just don’t have the space. I don’t think they intentionally are holding back the technology.. Not until decent omnidirectional treadmills are available, ‘roomscale’ will always seem very fake to me with warping etc..

  • Albert Hartman

    Still waiting for decent inside-out tracking to work. Then the Vive laser-lighthouse or Oculus cameras approach will both be moot.

  • Charles

    “we’ll probably support full 360”
    Probably? This is 100% necessary, at launch of the Oculus Touch. Otherwise the presence will be ruined. Vive has been doing it since the Spring – come on Oculus.

  • crim3

    It’s not about how much space you have for VR, but forgetting about sensors and where they are. With the Vive you forget about the real world.

    • Andrew Jakobs

      And you also forget about the real world with the Oculus.. It’s all due to the game you’re playing..

  • John Leonard

    I think US people are in some type of bubble and cannot see how the rest of the world works. I live in Japan and there is NO WAY people have space (nor are Japan houses design for such a open space) for room VR. their is ZERO market here. That being said, VIVE may still may have a market here …just not for room VR.

    • Julia Grant

      I live in a one bedroom apartment. I actually threw out tons of furniture and I have a 3 m x 3 m space. When people experience room scale, they will adapt their living spaces to accommodate it. I know I did. If you have room for a kotatsu, you can have some semblance of roomscale.

      Not saying everyone has this kind of space, mind you. There are plenty of apartments in Tokyo that could be considered closets in the US.

  • Torben Bojer Christensen

    I am sure when the next generation of the Rift is out, these reluctant PR statements from today will sound very retrogressive!

    In the meantime it is really a shame, as it only serves to keep the evolution of even more immersive VR back :-(

    So shame on you forked tongue PR-pimp Rubin and your league of counterrevolutionaries!

    • Andrew Jakobs

      nonsense, immersive VR isn’t all about roomscale, and what do you call roomscale? Fine you might have a large (at least 5 by 3 meters) room purely for VR, but even that is small for real roomscale, and almost nobody even got that much space available purely for VR..

  • wowgivemeabreak

    I like having the option of being able to use both and while I have yet to use the Vive and see how room scale is, just thinking about it doesn’t seem all that appealing to me since I will always have that thought that I am going to run into something or trip in my room, even if the space is wide open.

    • DiGiCT Ltd

      Dont worry about that lol.
      I have a Vive and you dont hit anything if you do the setup correctly via the roomscale wizzard.

      Roomscale is what makes VR more complete and also is a great exercise.
      Standing expierences are mostly OK but it does not let you feel much rather then a sports spectator, roomscale let you more feel like being the person playing the sports.

      • Andrew Jakobs

        Except real roomscale is just not feasible for most people, as said in the article, not a lot of people actually have a complete room for real roomscale, most people barely have free room for 2 by 2 meters, which is needed for the standing experience.. Great if you have a complete room of at least 5 by 3 meters for real roomscale VR, but you’re in a minority there. But to me even that isn’t real roomscale.. For me real roomscale will only be available with an omnidirectional treadmill, so I can keep walking in one direction and not having to turn or ‘warp’ to get to another position.

  • CMcD

    This is a good thing. The vive would have never made me realize that a VR experience with a controller can feel better than playing on a flat screen, rift and chronos showed me that it could be brilliant. I love my vive, but I find most people continually move back to the center of the room making the room scale unnecessary. They’re approach will be beneficial for many that can’t house a room scale experience as well

  • Karon

    “blah blah blah here is some bullshit reason that we don’t have to include extension cords”

    • Herman Munster

      Yea….. but I am really hoping the umbilical cord goes the way of the dinosaur

  • Richard Fox

    I have the Vive and the ability to wander about and change position is a definite plus to the experience. Playing the occulus games(courtesy of Revive) you do loose a little compared to Vive, try comparing the Blu with Ocean rift. However dual hand controls is probably more significant than a virtual space.

  • Herman Munster

    When I first got in to computers back in the 80s. I used to tell people that soon everyone will have a computer of their own. Your wrong, Not everyone needs a computer at home was a very common reply I got. Then I used to tell those same people that soon people will have several computers at home…and again they would scoff.
    The day approaches when a VR room will be considered a selling point of a home and will soon evolve to…. not having a VR room will make it hard to sell a home.
    If the cities mentioned in the article dont have room for VR in the homes….. people will just live elsewhere. Right now it’s “fashionable” to live in London and the prices reflect that but if that fashion dwindles and people find value in living elsewhere…… those who see their livelihood dwindle will find a solution.

  • dannyhefc69

    Using roomscale for 3-4 months, it just feels like the norm now, i cant imagine vr to be anything less. So for a company like oculus to still be chasing and disscussing it is crazy. Having any movement limitation when you have a hmd on is a bad move, if they stick with 270° people could still accidentally turn 280°+ and the game could start bugging out causing more problems for the users balance ect.
    I think oculus cant compete with the vive so they are making up excuses instead of accepting they are second best. Someone has to be second best, oculus should just take there position gracefully and stop all the bs and lies they keep feeding there customers, personally i dont think should have even tried to compete and stuck with being the best sit down experienced, and left the high end room scale to the vive

    • Kalle

      It tracks 360degree with one camera now, do you think it will get worse with 2 ?

      • dannyhefc69

        2 cameras where? 2 in front? 2 behind? 1 in front and 1 behind? I dont even think oculus know what to do. Having to rearrange your cameras for each game will just put people off, plus with no camera on the headset, things will get messy imo. I honestly dont see oculus offically supporting roomscale, it will be down to third party mods

        • Get Schwifty!

          Dude – seriously, look up room scale and Oculus on YouTube… devs do it all the time with the controllers and two cameras, all you need are some USB extension cables. The stance of encouraging devs to develop 180′ games is not the same things as “they can’t do it”. My personal feeling is in a year all this nonsense talk of Oculus can’t do room scale will be a distant memory… the Touch will seriously change the game up.

          • dannyhefc69

            If thats the case then why would oculus recommend 2 front facing camera’s? If it fully worked with 1 infront and 1 behind, oculus would just say this is the set up, and use it how ever you like 180, 360, 270 whatever…….

          • Kalle

            … It’s fully up to you how you setup your cameras. I do not think the police will come and arrest you if you put up one camera in the opposite corner.

            It’s kinda strange how limited people feel because of recommendations. It even says in the article that the devs can do what they want, no need to follow the recommendations.

          • dannyhefc69

            You missed my point, if it can do full roomscale with opposite cameras, why would oculus recommend 2 front and put a limitation in place. Its like saying “heres a new cpu it can hit 3.6ghz but we dont think you need that much power so we recommend underclocking to 1.8ghz”

          • Kalle

            You kinda missed mine to, it’s already proven so many times that it can do roomscale. Tons of videos on youtube, try google it.

            We’ll see what they recommend when it’s released, now we do not really know, do we?

            Regarding your cpu comparison. You run your cores much lower stock when not under load to conserve power, it’s called speedstep, and then it clocks up when needed. Also my old 2500k have been running at a speed of 4.5Ghz under load stable for 5 years (instead of 3.3Ghz). Soo, that comparison is quite not so good.

          • dannyhefc69

            Well we kinda do know by every offical touch demo only showing 2 front facing cameras. Do you really think they would keep 360 a secret, and risk losing sales to the vive?

            And i kinda think you looked into my comparison abit to much, i was trying to say a company would not intentional limit there product for no apparent reason, other than “we know what you wont more than you do”

          • Kalle

            There is tons of videos showing it works, so no well kept secret. Check out RealyCheckVR ‘s videos on youtube.

            I think the recommendations to devs is about including those customers who do not have 4x4m extra space to play around in to get a wider customer base. There is currently tons of roomscale material out, but not so much for people with limited space. I would gladly welcome a mix of it.

            Turn it around like this and give it a thought:
            If they would recommend roomscale to devs, would that mean it would be impossible for them to create seated experiences? Or that Oculus would not support a seated experience? :)

            – Of course it would not.

          • dannyhefc69

            Im not saying the rift cant “do” roomscale, i haven’t said that once. Iv seen afew videos of people using it, but dont you think its strange that oculus themselves have never shown it or any mention of an exclusive oculus game that supports roomscale?

            The touch is release within afew month, and with them not mentioning roomscale support……..fishy

          • Kalle

            Well, I think we’ll know more after their event in October. They have been quite quiet for a long time, sure. Big companies (FB) like to announce things at their own events. :/

            I think it’s good that they haven’t mentioned any exclusives for that. I would rather have all games working on all HMD’s. I understand why they use exclusives to try and get their platform going, but then they have to let Vive users use the platform without 3rd part software as r’vive.

          • dannyhefc69

            Oculus shown games that still had 6-12 month left in development, so for them not to show roomscale afew months before touch is release? It just doesn’t add up. They would not keep it quiet and risk losing potential customers to htc, its not like it a big brand new feature that will blow people away, it will just bring it up to the vives level

            Like you said tho, we will just have to wait and see

        • It does 360 with one camera on the base model because it doesn’t need to track the Xbox controller; there are IR emitters on the back of the Rift.

          Touch comes with an extra camera to allow 360 tracking of the controllers.

  • Room scale has some cool potential but at the end of the day the majority of people are just going to want to sit down and play. Room scale reminds me a lot of the Wii motion controls it was an exciting new way to play games but only for short periods of time. After a while you end up sitting down waggling the controllers while resting your arms on your lap. The VR HMD is not the most comfortable thing to get active in.

    • Get Schwifty!

      I agree that most people want a sitting experience, OTOH, unlike the Wii room-scale VR offers something “new” and much more appealing so I think we will see room-scale be one of a number of VR styles. I think Oculus is making a point that early adoption won’t be led by room-scale but by seated experiences…. as time goes on sitting/standing, “room-scale” and essentially un-tethered VR experiences will just be the norm, each with it’s particular applications.

  • VRDRUMMER

    For Kallee to view/see look at and observe..

    • Kalle

      So just because you can add up to 4 cameras, you feel that you are forced to buy that? Damn, I would love you as a customer!

      Other than that I would love to be able to have 2 active zones in two different rooms with fixed mounting. The ability to add more cameras makes that possible. But that’s just me.

      • VRDRUMMER

        Who said anything about being forced to purchase any damn thing! I willing support many…I expressed my displeasure at article written and some of the things Oculus has done. It is no secret in he industry that they had a rocky start for their launch and now getting their footing on gaining ground.. If this was a Vive article I may express some of my displeasure of Vive..maybe..
        Looking through here you seem to have an opinion on just about everyone’s post. You seem to be trolling.. I support and am satisfied with Oculus and Vive and many others. And note this –You personally would never have me as a customer because once I got wind of how much of a prick you are I wouldn’t do business with you.. So kindly LMTF alone!

        • Kalle

          You said you needed to buy extra cables and cameras for up to 500$. That’s why I told you you didn’t need to do to get roomscale. I even asked you too look up some videos showing that you didn’t need 4 cameras. You then posted this picture for me to see, why I wonder, if not to show me that you think you need 4 cameras.

          Other than that you have called me a bunch of names during your last two posts. Also, now I’m not able to post info that’s accurate without being called a troll?

          So please, behave.

          edit: yes my first reply to your earlier post wasn’t the greatest which I’ve already explained. Kinda tired of this whole “roomscale” debate when some people (not you) can’t even follow a youtube link to see some proof. It’s like they block it in their mind.

          • VRDRUMMER

            Their are also YouTube videos that point out as I expressed in one of my earlier replays to you that clearly show that 2 camera on the Oculus only cover a small room scale area. So apples to apples comparison Vive to Oculus you would need 4 Oculus cameras for the ultimate full room experience. Then cable extensions too… Which in turn goes back to my initial post to this entire situation that I felt prior piece mill obviously raises cost. And yes, 2 touch controller and camera bundle with shipping will easily be $250.00. Then 2 additional camera with shipping $200.00.. Then, the cable extensions for 4 Oculus Cameras.. Are we up to $500.00 yet? I believe we are close.. I win!!! Even Palmer has time and time again state that the Touch controller will not be cheap in cost.
            This isn’t an average controller. They will not be $70.00.. They will be more, more more…No need to respond to this reply!

          • Tad Springer

            I think you lose mate. You also seem like a Troll to me, although these days sadly I wouldn’t expect any less from the Vive masses. ;)

          • Your numbers are completely fabricated. For fun, let me fabricate my own, I believe much more likely scenario: Touch costs $99 and comes with everything you need to do room scale.

            If for some reason you’re a masochist, or you have a massive room, and you find yourself with the need to purchase the maximum amount of cameras possible, you spend another $79 doing so. Perhaps for some reason the cables aren’t long enough; you spring for extentions which, if they cost more than $10, you got robbed.

            As a regular customer, you’ve just spent 1/5th of the amount you suggest; if you have particularly special needs, you’re still below 1/2.

            Perhaps your imaginary numbers come from the Vive’s accessory price list? If so, this is a fools errand. Lighthouse tech is completely new, and based on crazy, spinning fricking laser beams. It’s an incredibly precise, groundbreaking technology, but it has it’s drawbacks because of this. Even the controllers utilise some form of new magic to read the Lighthouse patterns. It’s all proprietary, expensive stuff.

            This is where my own imaginary numbers come from: the Rift uses what amounts to Webcams and IR sensors stuck to (admittedly nice)hunks of plastic. Not an elegant or impressive solution, but functional – and cheap.

          • VRDRUMMER

            My numbers are not a stretch, But that’s my opinion. As your numbers are sarcastically under exaggerated…. But since neither one of us have release details of component pricing as they have not been released yet or bundle pricing (Touch).
            I have you noted to get back with you when the release occurs.
            Palmer said of Touch himself “It will not be cheap”. Think in terms of the design and development.. If you think one of those controllers are going to be $99.00 or less you are in my opinion seriously mistaken. I will get back to you. No reason to comment further in terms of pricing as we are both dealing in hypotheticals.

          • $99 is simply the low end of what most observers peg the entire Touch kit at, and I personally find it realistic considering 2 things: first, it is a dramatically different, more common technology such that most of the R&D would have been dedicated to form factor.

            Secondly, I truly don’t believe Oculus aspires to shoot themselves in the face with what is effectively their holiday push and the true full release of the Rift after an underwhelming first half, and a $99 price point seems like the best way to accomplish this, even if they take a small hit on each unit they’ll make up for it with bundling, licensing, and the future investment it represents in their user base. Even the Kinect is a more advanced piece of technology yet manages to sell with a profit, however poorly. A Webcam with some IR sensors is not pushing the envelope.

            Though I’d be interested to hear why you see different I look forward to revisiting this upon release either way.

          • VRDRUMMER

            Well Will … I am back as I promised.. Looks like I was accurate (correct, right) of Oculus Touch and it’s cost. I knew that the controllers would not be cheap as you stated. I knew that 2 controllers and camera with shipping from preorder would be $250.00. And additional cameras if you so choose to get are $79.00 each by themselves. It all good… I know it hurts.. ha, ha…

          • Kalle

            Right? You calculated 500$, that’s 301$ over the actual cost.

            You still don’t need more than 2 cameras, you can buy them, you can use them for two zones, or even if you really feel you need more than 2 in the same room, you can actually have that. It’s called options.

            So no, you were wrong! Accept it, end of story!

          • VRDRUMMER

            Well obviously you can’t read very well… track my post from this article and look at what I stated the cost of (2) controllers (1) camera bundle with shipping would cost. I clearly said $250.00.
            Your numbers reflect my 2- controllers, 3 camera, extension cables. READ!
            Do your research before you reply.
            Besides we’re you asked? No! You wanted to hi-jack my response to Will.
            Go hi-jack someone else!

          • Kalle

            And there we are once again with the personal trashtalk.

            You’re actually right, almost. 50$ wrong but I can at least admit it (remembered your old 500$ comment, and didn’t think you were talking about another one).

            You on the other hand, why do you always yell and talk trash about people? Think you should behave and treat people as you would like to be treated yourself.

          • Will Cho

            2 constellation sensor can support 2.5m by 2.5m. That’s 8.2ft by 8.2ft. Unless you live in huge house, average 2000sq ft house doesn’t really allow bigger play area. Unless you have a backpack pc, the cable on Vive is going to kill presence. If you want more than 2m by 2m play area on Vive, you’ll have to get extension cable too. Touch controllers will cost about 100 each considering it won’t have track pad and ir led is cheaper than laser sensor on the Vive’s wand. I think 3 constellation sensor will make 360 roomscale flawless and feel the same way about Vive’s lighthouse. However, I think 2 touch and another constellation sensor will cost 250 to 300 dollars. I’m okay with it because it will be great and willing to pay a little more for easier to use(trackpad vs thumbstick) and more comfortable.
            I’m not a big fan of wand, it isn’t comfortable and little awkard in my hands. Something tells me that touch controller is going to be much more comfortable to use like the Rift over Vive hmd and I can’t get used to wand’s track pad.(I bought the steam controller and really tried to get used to trackpad but failed like most people out there.)
            FYI, I own both Rift and Vive. And lol on your winning, what ever that means.

          • VRDRUMMER

            Thanks Will! Great information to know..

  • OhYeah!

    I would agree with Oculus just because the headsets are still tethered to the PC. When they can nail down a wireless headset then a room scale makes way more sense.

  • Brandodactyl

    Is it possible that Oculus is working on a locomotion solution that isn’t room-scale, that is to say, outside-in tracking with a mounted sensor (with no leg or body tracking), and thus is not openly supporting it? Will we even be saying “room-scale” in 2 years? I think back to Michael Abrash’s keynote at the first Oculus Connect. If he can be believed, the current state of room-scale is definitely a stopgap, albeit a really fun one!

  • VRDRUMMER

    One Vive trackpad controller is $129.00 individually. So one Oculus Touch will easily be $150.00.. Palmer said they will not be cheap..

    • Justos

      Its called markup. HTC makes lots of money on their hardware where Oculus do not. Did you see that leak? 199 for Touch and a camera. boom

      • VRDRUMMER

        I did eating crow,, a little…

  • Aragon

    They misunderstood something or never played HTC Vive games.

    The idea of roomscale on the HTC Vive is not to walk around in this space all the time. It is more to have enough movement around you for VR Controllers. After playing HordeZ or Raw Data I’am pretty sure a lot of people will say that 360° adds a lot of immersion to the game.

    I assume they do not want to advertise roomscale that much because you need an USB cable connection for each Oculus camera, making it more complicated to place them somewhere in the room as they need to be connected to a PC.

  • C Stargazer

    To me it’s rather simple. If you can support it easily, support it. It’s true not everyone has the space. However, Just because you can’t think of a use and are skeptical does not mean someone else won’t come up with a good reason or new creative solution. Otherwise, you give someone further inspiration to explore alternatives.

    Focusing on one area and making it polished is good, but don’t stifle the creativity of this community.

    In my opinion It feels like the taint of Corporate thinking at play and further validates concerns and feelings of betrayal over the Facebook deal. That said, glad to see the addition of support for multiple sensors.

  • Tarao

    Rading this I´m so happy I chosed the Vive over the Oculus. Once you have tested even a tech demo in room-scale, there’s no way you could seattle for front facing only. And I have only 1,5×2,5. As another user said this tech creates a new need. After playing room scale I would think about changing to a new apartment before thinking about not having room-scale.

  • Nakor

    I’m not sure if it is or not but it smells like bullshit. There’s no need to switch back and forth. 360 configuration supports BOTH front and 360. Front configuration supports ONLY front.

  • Torben Bojer Christensen

    This is great official “news” ! :-)

    The bad news however, is that Oculus is “sticking firm to its plan to focus on standing, front-facing VR experiences for motion input”. Any chance this could change in the future?

    I would really like both Companys to open begin focusing on room-scale titles, as I would like even more game titles developed for room-scale, as this mode certainly is the pinnacle of possible modes to experience VR gaming in today (from head tracking only to roomscale and everything else in between)

  • Buddydudeguy

    It seems to me you will simply face what would be “sideways” to a single sensor now. That way the “front facing” sensor is on your left and the ” rear sensor” is on your right. You can turn 180 degrees and now that’s reversed. Boom, perfect 360 with no controller occlusion. A third sensor would just make your play space larger and further prevent occlusion.