Valve’s rumored standalone XR headset, codenamed ‘Deckard’, is practically the stuff of legend at this point, with speculation brewing since data miners first discovered mention of the alleged device in January 2021. Now, leaker and data miner ‘Gabe Follower’ maintains Deckard is coming by the end of 2025, priced at $1,200.

Gabe Follower, who also runs a YouTube channel, reports in an X post that “[s]everal people have confirmed that Valve is aiming to release new standalone, wireless VR headset (codename Deckard) by the end of 2025. The current price for the full bundle is set to be $1200,” they say in the X post.

Gabe Follower also maintains Valve is also set to ship games or demos “that are already done” specifically for Deckard.

Notably, that $1,200 price point “will be sold at a loss,” Gabe Follower maintains, who posits Deckard will use the same SteamOS as seen in Steam Deck, Valve’s handheld, albeit adapted for VR.

“One of the core features is the ability to play flat-screen game[s] that are already playable on Steam Deck, but in VR on a big screen without a PC,” Gabe Follower claims, further noting behind-closed-door presentations could start soon.

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While all leaks should be taken with a grain of salt, Gabe Follower has accurately leaked a number of Valve-specific projects in the past, including leaks on Counter-Strike, Half-Life, and Valve’s upcoming PC shooter MOBA, Deadlock.

Even if the leak was more of a shot in the dark than insider info as such, it’s clear Valve is preparing something related to XR. In November 2024, leaked 3D models hidden in a SteamVR update appeared to show off a new VR motion controller, codenamed ‘Roy’.

Valve ‘Roy’ Model Leak | Image courtesy Brad Lynch

Departing from standard VR motion controller layouts, Roy appears to offer more of traditional gamepad-style button layout, which would make flatscreen gameplay (in a virtual environment) a 1:1 input experience with Steam Deck.

Successive rumors maintain Deckard may include PC VR wireless streaming capabilities, eye-tracking, as well as passthrough AR features, potentially putting it in competition with Meta Quest and/or Apple Vision Pro.

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Well before the first modern XR products hit the market, Scott recognized the potential of the technology and set out to understand and document its growth. He has been professionally reporting on the space for nearly a decade as Editor at Road to VR, authoring more than 4,000 articles on the topic. Scott brings that seasoned insight to his reporting from major industry events across the globe.
  • Sofian

    And AMD chip instead of the XR2 would be interesting.

    • xyzs

      Hum, what about no ?

      x86 is a total tech abomination (think about something designed over 40 years ago when needs were totally different, that have been patched, then patched again, then fixed, then patched, to end in a colossal multi generation piece of heterogenous, spaghetti garbage), I don't want that crap in my headset…

      Future is for ARM (v8~9, completely redesigned from scratch a few years ago) or RISC-V ISA.

      • Christian Schildwaechter

        TL;DR: the only reasonable choice for a Valve Deckard is an AMD x86 APU for both performance and compatibility reasons; the x86 instruction set is old, but the x86 architecture CPU implementation is new; RISC/ARM designed for simplicity wins in low power use cases, x86 wins in high performance; in contrast to always-on mobile phones mostly idling, VR HMDs are either running under constant, high load, or off, so VR doesn't benefit from ARM's main advantages; until recently the only available low power mobile SoCs with decent integrated GPUs were ARM SoCs, which is why everyone used them, but AMD APUs got much faster GPUs mostly due to PlayStation and Xbox.

        x86 is a total tech abomination […] Future is for ARM […] or RISC-V ISA.

        That's very oversimplified/wrong in general and for VR in particular. The x86 ISA/instruction set has been around since 1978, but the architecture of CPUs using it has significantly changed, and occasionally even backtracked (dropping long pipelines after P4), without breaking compatibility or users noticing. x86 is technically CISC with many complex, often slow instructions, designed for high performance. The ARM (~1986) and RISC-V (~2010) ISAs are RISC (~1980), with only a few very simple, but fast instructions, designed for efficiency.

        For the last 30 years Intel CPUs have translates x86 to RISC-like microinstructions internally though, so today the ISA distinction is blurry and matters mostly for extreme cases of either very low power consumption or very high performance. A second difference is RISC using lots of internal registers to reduce memory access, simplifying the design and saving energy, but also requires tighter integration, which is why ARM usually comes as a SoC with integrated GPU etc., while the more flexible x86 is paired with numerous chipsets, GPUs, networking etc.

        The simpler RISC ISA allows for smaller/cheaper chips, which paired with low power and high integration is why it dominates mobile applications. Mobile phone (and ultra notebook) use comes in bursts, mostly idling sitting on a desk or waiting for the user to scroll up, so ARM still makes more sense for longer battery life. For a long time x86 was way faster at comparable clock rates, and horrible at power saving. But just like there are now high performance ARM chips, x86 gained low power modes/cores.

        Many current ARM SoCs integrate (power hungry) high performance cores that run only for a few seconds to finish a burst task before switching back to low power cores. But VR use is a constant, high performance application, allowing neither for frequent burst due to heat causing throttling, nor for very low power, as even a static menu has to be updated 90 times a second in 3D. The XR2 Gen 2 therefore droped the high performance and low power cores from the SD8 Gen 2, using only performance and efficiency cores, similar to modern x86 CPUs.

        ARM is the better choice for smartglasses with sporadic user interaction, but a VR headset based on modern AMD x86 APUs can benefit both from the very fast GPU designs of the PC world and compatibility with the existing PCVR library. This is becoming feasible only now because in the past x86 iGPUs were mostly targeting low performance office use, while gamers were expected to connect dedicated, faster GPUs.

        But thanks to consoles, AMD has been putting faster and faster GPUs into their APUs. Nvidia and AMD now making more money from dedicating silicon wafers to AI accelerators, causing gaming GPUs to become way more expensive, makes APUs more attractive for PC gaming too, with AMD's latest Strix Halo APU reaching RTX 4060 performance on the integrated GPU. Something we won't see for years in ARM SoC with designs driven by mobile phones/ultrabooks, where battery life is more important than in a USD 1200 VR HMD that can actually be made more comfortable by adding a large battery as a counter balance at the back.

        "Old" doesn't automatically mean worse, as long as the technology is kept up to date. iOS and Android, and in consequence visionOS and Horizon OS all started as a Unix-like OS with an object oriented application layer modeled after the 1988 NeXTSTEP. Unix itself was released in 1969. So the very core function of any current standalone headset is based on technology released a decade before the x86 ISA.

        And I actually agree that RISC-V is the future. Not because the ISA/architecture would be fundamentally better, but because the open ISA allows for more competition. In contrast ARM turned into a licensing bully after being acquired by SoftBank, trying to force their ISA licensees to also buy their designs for GPUs, NPUs etc., and limiting competing designs similar to AMD/Intel restricting x86.

        • xyzs

          What matters to me, is to start having a beautifully clear and clean assembly.

          I don't care modern x86 chips are cheating their original atrocious ISA specs by interfacing it to an actually quite RISC typed backend implementation, the assembly is still ugly and confusing as f**k.

          And it makes drivers and codecs asm implementations overly complicated and not future-proof, since the closed ISA is bound to retire son.

          So, I maintain what I said: no x86, thanks.

          • Christian Schildwaechter

            The x86 ISA is full of inherited crud going back to 8bit 8008, and was already considered ugly during my (long past) days of writting 6502/68K assembly. Today I stick to high level languages even on microcontrollers and prefer Python over C#, so barely care about the ISA anymore. I'm a big fan of LLVM as a thin abstraction layer for "run anything anywhere" at minimal performance cost, hiding the ISA further.

            And I was always fascinated by the IBM extremist hardware abstraction from System/38 over AS/400 to IBM i. Not only covering CPU architecture like LLVM, but replacing/hiding all hardware, with applications transpiled upon installation. Allowing a 1978 System/38 application binary predating microprocessors to run on a 2025 IBM POWER RISC server without modification/emulation at max machine performance.

            Almost 50 years of cross hardware/OS binary compatibility without performance penalties is the polar opposite of writing OS/CPU dependent drivers in assembly with a pretty/ugly instruction set. I understand why it makes a difference to you, but with most XR devs writing C# in Unity largely abstracting OS, graphics library and XR input using LLVM, it won't have much impact on HMD design.

    • mirak

      it will of course be an AMD or x86 chip.

  • Jeremiah

    That's going to struggle at that price imho, assuming that rumour is true. I might just buy a Quest 3 instead, even though I'd rather give my money to Valve.

    • MosBen

      It depends on what we mean by struggle. Will it move as many units as the Quest 3? Probably not. Will it sell out of its initial run with a waitlist of several months, at least at first? Probably.

      • Jeremiah

        Yeah, but we’re talking small fries here, like the Deck.

        • MosBen

          And? The definition of success isn't the same for every product. Steam is a money printing machine. If Deckard proves to be popular enough to influence VR development in a direction that Valve wants and in particular if it keeps Steam as a primary storefront for VR software sales instead of ceding ground to Meta's platform, then they might consider it a success even if it never sells tens of millions of units. If, say, Deckard leads to half a dozen other companies to build HMDs based on Deckard's design choices and those subsequent HMDs end up being products that really connect with customers and bring a bunch of new customers to Steam to buy games, will Valve care that they didn't sell a ton of HMDs?

          • Jeremiah

            That sounds like wishful thinking, don’t get me wrong, I want Valve to sell 10’s of millions and be the leader in this industry. But at that price they’ll remain niche and Meta will continue to influence where the industry goes. No way I’m paying $1200 that effectively does the same thing as a $300 device, albeit, in a more shiny way. Most people won’t care about the extra bells and whistles I’m afraid.

            This is a moot point, it’s not official yet, if Valve have the sense to release it for a much more affordable price, then I’ll be more than interested, as that is my preferred route.

          • MosBen

            My point was that Valve themselves doesn't need to sell many units of Deckard to be a success because the profitability of their business doesn't hang on how the product sells like it might for some other companies. Valve isn't going to slay Meta as a company in general or a VR business no matter how good Deckard is. A $1,200 device will always be niche, but the point is to encourage other manufacturers to put out VR HMDs which compete more directly with Meta on price but which take their design and input cues from Deckard and which use the Steam store for selling software to their players.

          • Arno van Wingerde

            But then you run into the same problems as with Quest compatibles: other companies can put out sets but they have to compete with the subsidised sets of Valve/Meta who do not have to earn money with their hardware.

          • MosBen

            Yeah, but if Deckard is priced above $1,000 that seems designed to leave room for third parties to make headsets targeting a more mainstream crowd.

          • Jeremiah

            Keep in mind the similarly priced RTX4090 only shipped approx 130-160,000 units, that's nice and all as the profit margins are high (53-66%, so $850-$1,050 per card in profit the greedy gits for a total of $285 million!), but still chip change compared to what they're making in the AI space.

            I'm not convinced Valve want it to continue to remain niche though, if they are OK with that and it's purely a passion project, then I'm cool with that, but it's not likely!

          • MosBen

            I actually think that Nvidia is a decent point of comparison here. Sure, they would love it if their graphics card business not only sold everything that they made but also earned them lots of good will in the gaming industry. It is their roots after all. But success or failure for Nvidia is no longer as closely tied to their gaming hardware division as it was several years ago.

            I'm not saying that Valve wants Deckard to be a niche product. I'm saying that they probably don't care if it does remain a niche product as long as it accomplishes other goals. Take the Steam Deck. It's probably been more successful than they imagined that it would be, but more important than that is that it's kicked up a whole product segment of handheld gaming PCs. That's good for the Steam side of their business, which is the thing that's most important to them. Every person who is playing on a ROG Ally instead of a Switch is a win for Valve and a success driven by the Steam Deck. If Deckard brings more people to playing VR through Steam it doesn't matter if those people are actually using a Deckard or if they buy an HMD produced by a third party that's capitalizing on Deckard's buzz.

          • Jeremiah

            I guess it doesn’t matter as much to them as some because of the cash cow that is Steam. I don’t know their personal goals with it (except that they want to emulate Nintendo in the PC space), maybe it’s to start small and build up slowly, surely they want to get to scale at some point though.

          • MosBen

            Honestly, I'm not sure that they do want Deckard to scale. I mean, I guess they'd probably be happy if it did, but Valve's always been a pretty mercurial company about things like this. And ultimately that's really my point: sure, Deckard selling a hundred million units would be good for Valve, but it's very likely that that's not how they're defining success for the product. So it's worth thinking about what their goals for the product are and what success looks like from Valve's perspective before we start declaring it a failure for hitting some arbitrary metric that we're imposing on it.

          • Jeremiah

            I guess mainly I’ll just be disappointed if it isn’t more affordable, that gets to the crux of the matter for me anyway! It’s true they do play it rather strategically and they are smart no doubt. I’m sure they’d love to be in Nintendo’s position with 150m sold though, but I appreciate as long as Steam continues to dominate, they won’t be sweating! Either way, I am very glad they haven’t given up on VR and I appreciate all they’ve done to further the industry and bringing me one step closer to the dream of having my very own personal Holodeck!

    • spirr9986

      Nooo it will be a total hit, we have been waiting far too long for it. Their strategy is a master class. This will instantly be the one headset to rule them all. Why,, unlike apple it is not a one trick pony. Flat, VR, Eye Tracking, AR, Games. Media consumption, and productivity all in one OLED Device.

      • mirak

        I hope it has OLED and supports Lighthouse and uses wigig since I am used to high quality wireless with Vive Wireless Adapter

        • Andrew Jakobs

          No real need for lighthouse tracking as current camera/sensor based tracking is on par with lighthouse. Only reason still for lighthouse is controller tracking out of line of sight of the headset, but with inside out tracking on controllers that should also not be a problem. I just hope the valve controllers have finger tracking like the index, and comes with similar straps (love the 3rd party version for my Pico 4 controllers).

          and from personal experience with my main PCVR headset for many years, HTC Vive Pro (1) with its wireless module, I too tought that was good quality, but boy was I wrong. Even on the default settings with Pico connect, my Pico 4 has better visuals through my wifi5(!) router (which is connected by Gbit wired to my PC, and old 2013 Core i7 4770/2019 rtx2060super).
          I always thought, from people telling you need at least the latest wifi6 and a very fast computer, that my vive wireless module would be better so I kept using it, even though I had my Pico for months. But because I'm starting to gather info for a new build, I thought that I at least should test, software, what's needed to get wireless PCVR going with my Pico 4. But after installing Pico Connect last month I was just blown away and VERY surprised it even ran, smoothly, and nicer visuals as my Vive Pro wireless. So even with the old hardware, old wifi, it ran perfect. Still haven't tried fiddling with the settings to see if it can get even better. BUT I heard the latest Pico connect update is a bit fubar, so I refrained from loading that last update.

          • mirak

            Your pico is LCD and latency must not be as good as well as occlusion.

            I am not saying it’s not usable but you get downgrade on everything but resolution, which in turn costs you more GPU.

            I gave my OG Vive to friends and played there and I am like resolution doesn’t matter that much for some reason, and don’t think it should be what prevents people from buying vr.

          • Andrew Jakobs

            Sorry, but the image of the Pico 4 is really much better, sharper as the grainy OLED panels if the HTC Vive Pro with its awful fresnel lenses (ok, the Pico is also not completely glare free, but its night and day compared to Vive.) yeah, the blacks are better on the Pro, but not much.

          • mirak

            I didn't say it's not better, I said that it's like a monitor upgrade from like 720p to 1080p.
            720p isn't unusable to play games.
            This is not what will prevent you to have fun with games.
            The issue is rather games.

          • NL_VR

            Try virtual desktop its even better

          • Andrew Jakobs

            Maybe when I get my new computer in a couple of weeks/months, but for now, with the old hardware Pico Connect is good enough.

        • Cl

          Meh. I was a big advocate for lighthouse, but standalone tracking is pretty good now. Think the ship has sailed for it.

        • Somerandomindividual

          It would be surprising if it didnt have some support for base station, Valve doesn't strike me as the kind of company to leave its loyal base station technology customers with paperweights.

      • Jeremiah

        It will most likely be incredibly niche like the Deck. I like Valve and hope it’s a huge hit, but it needs to be $400 or less to hit the mainstream, arguably $300 or less actually.

        • Arno van Wingerde

          But lots of Steam users spend way more than that on their video cards alone. Yes, it is not for everybody. For enthusiast, $1200 might be doable for a steam desk + VR set.

    • Andrew Jakobs

      No, it won't struggle at that price. I'll bet it'll be hard to get one. The full set of the Index was also very expensive and still sold many.

      • Leisure Suit Barry

        People also said PSVR2 would be scalped for a year and sell 2M in the first month . . .

      • Blaexe

        Of course things are hard to get when you don't have much stock. People say that Steamdeck is a "massive success" while Quest has sold much, much better. (and is often considered a failure in media)

        Index also didn't make a dent in the trajectory of PCVR or VR as a whole while selling a few million units. Things need to sell 10x as much to make an actual difference and this headset at this price won't do that.

        • Christian Schildwaechter

          TL;DR: Steam Deck/Deckard run existing software, while Quest has to sell enough units to get developers to create software for it, so the threshold for "success" is quite different for these devices.

          Comparing Steam Deck to Quest sales is somewhat apples to oranges, because the Steam Deck runs regular PC games and Valve even discourages developers from creating games specifically for it, while Quest only runs games created esp. for it. Steam Deck never had to sell in large numbers to become interesting, it only needed to be mostly compatible, so when it sold a lot more than the already existing handheld x86 gaming PCs from GPD or Ayaneo, and consequently triggered larger players like Lenovo, Asus and MSI to also release similar devices, this was considered a massive success.

          On the other hand it was clear from day one that Quest would have to sell in huge numbers for developers to justify developing games for it, as the hardware was too slow to run ports of most of the existing PCVR games. And without games, it wouldn't have been useful. Meta struggled to get to the 10mn active users Zuckerberg declared necessary for a self-sustaining ecosystem, and we are still far off from AAA projects being financially feasible. The only company that tried to release similar devices was Pico, more driven by ByteDance/TikTok wanting to copy Meta's XR strategy than profits, and they now have scaled down their ambitions. Which is why Quest, despite having sold a lot more units than Steam Deck, is often considered a failure in media.

          A x86 Deckard that is also optimized to run flat Steam games doesn't need to attract new developers, it can run the existing PCVR games, which nowadays includes ports of most games released on Quest, and ~90K other games out of the box. So it's similar to AVP in that there is already an overwhelming amount of non-XR apps it can run before it is even launched, but in contrast to AVP there are also a large number of XR apps readily available. It doesn't even have to sell in large numbers to become very useful.

          • Blaexe

            Nothing of your long text takes away from my point. Clearly there's not *that* much demand if Steamdeck only sells about 4 million units, while all variants are in stock now.

            Deckard on the other hand would be a much harder sell if it's mainly a "Steamdeck for the face". Much more expensive, much less convenient.

            I want XR to gain traction, to make steps forward, to become a broader part of society. Deckard will not help towards that goal. It will be a niche device again, a smaller niche than Steamdeck. Cool for the few people that want exactly that but for VR as a whole? Snoozefest.

            Oh, and I actually thought you knew your stuff. But Deckard running existing PCVR in any meaningful way? Out of the question. The performance within that TDP frame is not available today.

          • Christian Schildwaechter

            It's okay if you want Valve to primarily grow the VR market, but that doesn't mean that's what they want, have to or will do. The Index wasn't aimed at the mass market either, instead targeted enthusiasts with a high end device showing what is possible with VR. HL:A similarly demonstrated how to do good VR game design, not how to design a VR game that makes money in a still small market.

            I doubt Valve ever considered releasing a Quest 3S like HMD priced low enough to significantly grow the market, even though Steam Deck did exactly that for handheld gaming PCs. Instead they are going for the high end again, but this time making the HMD also attractive to non VR gamers with a 4K microOLED display (2022 eMagin "Steamboat") for a huge virtual display to work/play on, similar to AVP.

            It will slightly grow the number of VR users, might turn out to be great for DIY hybrid games using UEVR, and longterm get developers to release more hybrid games, similar to PSVR2's hybrid AAA approach, that later may draw more users. But short term it can't grow VR anywhere as much as Quest. But that's okay too, as Valve's goals and benchmarks for success don't have to match yours either.

          • Blaexe

            The thing is: People still see Valve as the savior as VR everywhere. I have this discussion regularly in all kinds of VR (enthusiast) communities. These exact people complain that there are no more high fidelity, high quality VR games anymore because "Meta is bringing the market down."

            And at the same time Valve is doing nothing to grow the market. Nothing to fund games. And this Deckard is just one more chapter. If people were criticizing for not doing enough – I'd be fine. But that's just not the case.

            I doubt Valve ever considered releasing a Quest 3S like HMD priced low enough to significantly grow the market

            Of course not. Meta is doing that just fine. But Valve could fund 10 AAA PCVR games. One game – HL:A: – didn't change the trajectory. It's not enough. Actually put some money where their mouth is.

            XR is running into a real possible scenario where it just fails. It basically is up to Metas commitment. Do you think that is okay?

            even though Steam Deck did exactly that for handheld gaming PCs.

            Easy to grow a market that's basically zero…

          • Christian Schildwaechter

            TL;DR: Valve won't save VR; Meta won't save VR; technology improving will save VR, but it will take time, and an approach that relies more on extending what exists instead of creating something completely new at unsustainably high cost.

            Valve isn't the savior of VR, but neither is Meta, because user acceptance cannot be bought only with subsidized hardware or games. People will come to VR once the cost/benefit/hassle ratio is good enough, but bad ergonomics limited by lacking technology will prevent mass market adoption for years to come.

            Meta now focusing on free-to-play and Horizon Worlds is one indicator that throwing money at AAA didn't work, AAA titles Meta paid for quickly vanishing from the Top 20 is another. Most people use standalone HMDs not in the way enthusiasts want them to, and billions invested didn't change that, so Meta is adjusting its strategy. And I think that is okay, because nobody, neither Meta nor Valve, is obliged to burn more money just because we want nicer toys.

            I like the concept behind AVP, PSVR2 and Deckard: pick up new user where they already are, with using iPad apps, adding VR modes to console AAA titles or letting them play flat games on virtual screens, providing a use from day one without having to radically change their behavior. IMHO more likely to win over non-enthusiasts than asking them to switch to a completely separate ecosystem lacking all the tiny things they use.

            VR growth will be slower with extending existing use cases to XR, lacking true XR killer apps, but no amount of AAA will change that. The Steam Deck exemplifies this: it doesn't create a new platform, it extends an existing one to a new form factor. And despite the constraints, it proved popular, similar to the even less capable PlayStation Portal many expected to flop. They win not by providing a grandiose new experience, but by providing more convenience that is worth the price and hassle for a (small) number of users.

            If regular people like something, they buy and use it, and convenience is often way more important than quality. Which is why still very inconvenient VR cannot be forced into the market by throwing more money at games. For the foreseeable future it's a niche for those valuing immersion over convenience, gradually gaining more uses and content while tech and comfort improve. The trick is finding compromises that allow for a slow, but sustainable development. And currently Apple, Sony and Valve all seem to have more viable concepts for this than Meta who's strategy mostly bet on having lots of money to quickly buy user acceptance.

          • XRC

            Old engineering joke, "Premature cost reduction is the root of all evil".

            Unfortunately there's truth in that, perhaps Meta never heard that one?

            Quest is neat, but has undoubtedly setback software development, and just doesn't provide me with an adequate virtual reality. Lone Echo on Quest anyone?

            PCVR is expensive and unfriendly to operate at times, but damn it's very satisfying in terms of sheer presence; that feeling of being transported.

            Currently playing through "Into the Radius" using a Crystal with steamVR tracking, BMR ear speakers and index controllers, running on RTX 4080 with 120hz Tobii eye tracking driving dynamic foveated rendering.

            At high resolution (100% is 4312×5104 per eye) it's completely ridiculous in there, it's starting to look almost real at times, I've been startled a few times by overpowering feelings of presence.

            And for that I will spend top dollar, and thankfully there are a sizeable number of fellow enthusiasts with similar tastes. Developers can sell DLC and early access and find a good audience with money to spend.

            It never needed to be mainstream, and it still requires further technical development at the cutting edge

          • Andrew Jakobs

            Don't underestimate how much more powerful the newer, yet to be released, AMD x86/GPU socs are. Yeah they won't be able to run hignend needed PCVR games, but if it is as powerful (or better) as an RTX2060, it will be able to run a lot, if not most PCVR games. But I'll bet, with most standalone headsets these days, it will shine with wireless streamed highend PCVR.

          • Blaexe

            Don’t overestimate. The most recent ones are barely 50% more efficient. There will be no magic progress within 1 year when they only gained 50% in more than 2 years.

            We need 500% better efficiency.

          • Christian Schildwaechter

            TL;DR: process improvements, ETFR, higher TDP and upscaling should allow a 4K Deckard based only on average progress and already existing technology.

            We need 500% better efficiency.

            Not really. The 2024 AVP is running on a 2022 M2, the Steam Deck on a 2022 AMD Van Gogh/Aerith. AVP draws up to 40W, while the Steam Deck is limited to 15W, so one way to 4K HMD performance is adding more battery to allow for a larger/faster SoC. The M2 alone still wouldn't be anywhere near enough, so it relies on eye tracking and ETFR, which is apparently more aggressive than on PSVR2, where gamers are unable to notice the difference, while AVP users see somewhat blurry regions during eye movements.

            GPU power increases by roughly 1/3rd each year. With Deckard expected late 2025, it would be almost four years younger than the Steam Deck released in 2022-02, so just based on time passed, it would offer 3.1x the GPU performance. AMD just announced an Aerith Plus supposed to use 12 instead of 8 CUs, getting us to 4.7x even before ETFR. The original Aerith used RDNA2, while a Deckard APU might use RDNA4, which introduces a new FP8 data type to speed up AI that is used for the first time in FSR4.

            FSR1 was a spatial only upscaler, FSR2 added temporal data, FSR3 frame generation, and FSR4 ML similar to DLSS for much improved results. And since SteamOS comes with the Gamescope compositor that already does system wide FSR1, with OpenVR providing the motion vectors necessary for FSR2/3/4, upscaling on Deckard probably won't depend on developer support and instead work for any PCVR game.

            So a late 2025 AMD APU with ~ 1/3rd higher TDP (Aerith Plus 20W) than the Steam Deck could get you to almost 5x the raw performance. If Valve's ETFR is as efficient as Sony's/Tobii's saving 72% render time, we see a factor of 17x without the benefits of RDNA4/upscaling. Which Deckard will need, because the Aerith APU had to render 1280*800@60Hz, while the HMD will have to render 2*3600*4000@90+Hz, more than 40x the pixels per second. But that's actually doable without any magic involved, only new technologies that so far haven't been standard in HMDs, but are already in use, so not only theoretical options.

          • Blaexe

            A lot of things wrong here.

            – Vision Pro consumes up to 30W but typically around 18W.

            – GPU efficiency does not increase by 33% each year, not even close to that. Raw power increase doesn’t matter if you need higher power consumption to reach it. There are REAL benchmarks comparing a 15W Strix Point to Steamdeck. Not more than 50% higher performance.

            – Steamdeck already has a huge 50Wh battery. (x2.5 of Quest 3, bigger than Vision Pro even) That’s okay for a handheld but not for a headset except if you go the way of Apple and make it external.

            – DFR on mobile headsets hasn’t shown huge performance gains until now.

            Physics quite simply prevent a PCVR standalone headset today if you don’t want a huge>1kg headset.

          • Christian Schildwaechter

            – Don't remember the source, the 40W were supposed to be a peak value while charging.

            – Qualcomm had a generational GPU performance grows of ~32% per year following the SD820 for several years, Apple closer to 40%. Desktop GPUs gain less. Yes, this is raw peak power that will not translate directly to real world performance, but that doesn't matter for evaluating relative generational changes.

            – The Steam Deck is supposed to run for 8h under low load with a bright 8" display and loud speakers, though you can drain the battery in 90min by cranking everything up in a demanding game. The Quest 3 battery weighs 69g, the AVP battery pack 353g. Deckard could use an AVP sized battery as counter balance, so this isn't really an issue.

            – DFR on Quest Pro hasn't shown huge performance gains because it has to run on a rather weak XR2+ Gen 1and consumes so much compute that apps can no longer activate the highest CPU performance. AVP is a mobile headset with a much more effective implementation, very likely due to having way more compute power to throw at it.

            AMD has published lots of roadmaps, so it has been known for years that APUs 15W TDP with the raw performance of a GTX 1060, so pretty much the 2017 PCVR entry level performance without reprojection, would become available around late 24/early 25, so this was the first moment when an x86 Deckard capable of running most PCVR games at low settings would become possible.

            But Valve will very likely aim for a better experience than a Rift CV1 or Vive provided, so the APU will have to be more powerful and a lot of tricks will be needed to increase the effective render resolution. And of course this is all speculation based on rumors about a headset that may or may not appear in almost a year, so all the calculations are mostly about general feasibility, less about current implementation.

      • Jeremiah

        How many? I think the Index is rather niche compared to the Quest 2.

        • Andrew Jakobs

          At release it was pretty much sold out, and it was a long time any index they produced was sold immediately. It's not the numbers like the Quest headsets.

          • Jeremiah

            That’s what I mean, the Quest 2 sold much much more and yet that’s still relatively niche compared to the numbers the VR industry needs to reach the mainstream.

    • Somerandomindividual

      There are more than enough people with $1200 to spend to make valve some money.

      • Jeremiah

        Yeah but as the recent Steam Deck numbers have revealed, it’s a small niche. I’d like to see them go mainstream, but not if they lost what makes them special.

  • Welp, it leaked, so now Valve time is gonna add 8 years XD

  • Derek Kent

    Buying day one. (if the FOV is wide and it has OLED)

    • Mike

      Also needs decent binocular overlap. Lacking that was the dealbreaker of the Vive Pro 2.

    • Somerandomindividual

      Sorry dude but 'Wide FOV' and MicroOLED don't go together… best we can hope for in that case is likely around 100H.

      • Christian Schildwaechter

        Unless they use very large microOLEDs and pancake lenses configured less for slimming down the HMD and more for increasing FoV. Pancakes can be used for both, and the 2022 eMagin "Steamboat" microOLED samples were 2.1" compared to the 1.41" ones from Sony used in AVP, almost 50% larger.

        I'd expect Valve to at least match the FoV of Index again. Usually increasing FoV comes at significant render cost due to a lot more geometry becoming visible in the periphery, the least important part of the view, so keeping FoV low makes sense, esp. on mobile devices. But with an efficient ETFR solution, a higher FoV should be much more feasible, as most of added graphics in the peripheral vision could be rendered at very low resolution.

        • Thud

          Christian, I remember seeing a very promising development by a company that merged a set of lenses to the outside of existing center field lenses that was well received by reviewers at trade shows they blended the dges of an additional set of lenses to the center lenses and seemed to be very far along in development. Have you heard of any progress or do you possibly remember the name of the company? I think I saw a video by Brad or sebastion who viewed them at a trade show and was impressed. If I locate the video I'll let you know.

          • Christian Schildwaechter

            No, I'm not aware of that. There are numerous ways to get to a large FoV, but besides the increased performance requirements, you usually run into serious distortion issues towards the edges of the needed lenses with high magnification. So maybe this is what they were addressing with composite lenses.

            Using pancake lenses consisting of several stacked lenses of lower magnification is another way, and around 2015 Wearality already offered 140° FoV Fresnel lenses on Kickstarter. The Varjo XR-4 uses very clever aspheric lenses that have a higher magnification at the center, leading to a peak 51PPD density at the center where our eyes see the sharpest, while dropping magnification/resolution towards the edge where we cannot see details anyway.

            All in all a large FoV is less a question of "how to do it at all", and more one of "how to do it in a reasonable way", as increasing FoV comes with a number of disadvantages not necessarily worth the effort. HMD design is always about balance, with different use cases leading to different results. As Valve focuses on gaming, I'd expect them to value FoV over PPD, but I wouldn't expect them to go much beyond the FoV on Index on a standalone HMD due to the performance and optical issues this would cause.

          • XRC

            Hypervision? Who received investment from Somnium.

  • VR Wars

    What ever happened to that Valve-hater that was always posting here? Frozen in some ice cube at Gabe's place, or maybe was fed to his pet. He would have been all over this!

    • kakek

      ViRGiN had been missing for a while.
      Honestly, I hope he just got better and simply disconnected from his strange crusade against Valve.

    • Rosko

      Meta have made cutbacks to their staff.

  • Rudl Za Vedno

    I really hope it's a hybrid headset. DP for native PCVR + standalone option. Pls Valve, do that and take my money asap.

    • mirak

      I want wireless wigig instead of wifi, and DP.

      • Andrew Jakobs

        Why? If it supports Wifi7 full specs wigig isn't needed as there aren't many routers which support it at all, and wifi 7 routers are already available and more to come.

        • mirak

          Well, then whatever wireless protocol that can push enough data.

          I didn't needed to play in different rooms, so wigig and need of line of sight transmission was fine for me.

          • Andrew Jakobs

            Well, don't really think the latest wifi6/7 protocols are the problem, bit the encoding and decoding part is where the problem lies.

          • Somerandomindividual

            That's correct, encoding/decoding performance is holding things back.

  • Cl

    If its comfortable, has oled and FOV matching quest 3 or higher, ill buy

    • Guest

      Not gonna lie, I'm gonna need more than those 3 things to pay $700 more.

      • Christian Schildwaechter

        How about also getting a free PC that can run Linux and Windows desktop applications on 4K microOLED displays? You can already switch a Steam Deck running SteamOS into desktop mode, where it acts just like any other PC, running Linux apps by default and Windows games and apps with Proton/WINE.

        If you add a bluetooth keyboard and mouse, Deckard could easily work as a laptop with a giant virtual screen. That's something others aim for, but so far only AVP at least works as an XR iPad, AndroidXR HMDs will do something similar, but so far no standalone can run full-blown Windows apps, not even ARM based one, let alone the myriad of x86 programs.

        • Somerandomindividual

          There is definitely no guarantee that it will have 4k MicroOLED displays, that's a really high resolution for running anything standalone.

          • Christian Schildwaechter

            At DisplayWeek 2022 eMagin showed a very bright and large 2.1" 4K microOLED display (3600*4000@120Hz) that had the word "Steamboat" on the PCB. eMagin said it was developed according to requirements for a proof of concept VR HMD from a partner, with a second, "larger company" also involved, and that it would take at least 18 months before mass production. A year later Samsung, most likely the "larger company", acquired eMagin, who stated they would use Samsung's resources and production expertise to bring the production process to industrial scale.

            Everything Deckard is still a rumor, so this doesn't proof the HMD will come with eMagin 4K microOLEDs designed for pancake lenses and produced by Samsung. But labeling the prototype "Steamboat", Deckard (supposedly) including eye tracking and an unannounced AMD APU that just like on AVP would allow to drive 4K with ETFR, are somewhat strong hints.
            https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/dbcb02d4c80693f403a2262041861c04ecde4a2faead1f82848ded18c92e0c13.jpg

      • Cl

        I like to keep my expectations realistic so im not disappointed. There will probably be other great things about it, but these are the dealbreaker specs for me.

  • spirr9986

    I need this like NOWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW

  • mirak

    Hope it has OLED, supports lighthouse and a wireless as good as the Vive Wireless Adapter.

    It would be easier with wigig bandwith instead of Wifi, but I think they will use eye tracking to save bandwith with foveated compression.

  • BabyFaceMonster

    Woah
    Another headset
    like there isn't enough

    • Somerandomindividual

      I know yours was a comment without much thought behind it, but there are actually not enough headsets with the balance of features that enthusiasts want, and zero that provide a standalone x86 experience with both DP and WiFi that is fully integrated with SteamVR.

    • FRISH

      Yeah steam have just released way too many headsets…

  • tyretes

    they're definitely not competing for quest 3, the price suggests for enthusiast class.

    but since it was also said that the vr will come with an in-house game , there might be an incentive as to why they created it in the first place. for gamers? for xr folks?

    what will it be for.

    • Andrew Jakobs

      I guess for enthousiasts who like PCVR games, as I'll bet most of the current SteamVR games will probably run on the headset. It will probably be around the RTX2060 power, with some extra special VR processing options, so it will certainly be a decent standalone headset., but it will probably shine with streaming PCVR and a highend PC. That's probably also why they released the SteamLinkVR for the Quest, so they can test their software.

  • wheeler

    Should be an extremely interesting take on VR by the sounds of it. I was not convinced by traditional gaming in any HMD I've used before experiencing Apple's headset, but now I think this will be the most successful application of VR headsets yet. "Success" in terms of engagement of course, not merely more mass sales of headsets that largely collect dust

  • Jistuce

    Awww, did they give up on the Knuckles & Knuckles controller?

    • XRC

      As a knuckles warranty veteran it's probably for the best…

    • Andrew Jakobs

      We'll see, nothing is know if those new controllers don't support finger tracking. I do hope they ship with index like straps, as those are really comfortable and let's you not drop the controllers by accident. Bought some straps like it for my original Pico 4 controllers, and I wouldn't want to play without them anymore (IMHO it should come standard).

  • Groovy Duck

    I think the possibility of a full x86 PC in a HMD form factor is being really understated right now. Especially for the fact if Valve is the one making it, the device is sure to be sold as an open system like the Steam Deck is. That also necessary means there will be a Linux distro, probably a spin of SteamOS that will be released as the shipping OS on this x86 HMD.

    To my knowledge there isn't any standalone HMDs that you can just go and replace the OS with whatever you what, much less one that isn't ARM based.

    • Andrew Jakobs

      But why would you want to replace the OS, maybe in the future when support is waning. There wouldn't be much content to run on the headset if you're gonna put your own OS on it. But SteamOS on x86 will benefit from having a lot of SteamVR games already running on the system, which of course opens up a lot of content. And PCVR games are much more easily to get on the cheap thanks to sites like Eneba (cheap keys), Fantical (bundles) and humble bundle.

      • Groovy Duck

        Lets be clear, really the only other possible OS that you could install is some and any form of Linux.

        I would want to able to replace the OS for the same reason I value being able to replace the OS on my Steam Deck: it allows for an open target to develop for and ensures that it will have a future no matter what happens to Valve or whoever makes it.

        You could ask your the same question for the Steam Deck, why would you want to replace the OS on a Steam Deck. People find value in installing the Bazzite OS onto their Deck instead of SteamOS for a community maintained OS as opposed to a Valve maintained one. Because of Proton, you will always have software to run, provided you are on a Linux distro. This, I would think, would all apply to a hypothetical x86 HMD by Valve.

      • Christian Schildwaechter

        Most OS replacements will just alter SteamOS. Deckard focuses on Steam games, but USD 1200 for 4K microOLED would be a steal for any XR use. Some might want it for media consumption, or productivity, booting into the Simula VR window manager going way beyond simulated screens. Or create an emulation focused distribution that can (slowly) run ARM binaries on an Android emulator, or ancient DK1/DK2 demos using a pre 1.0 Oculus SDKs to OpenXR translation.

        The Monado project implemented a FOSS Linux OpenXR stack and will be all over Deckard. And if Valve denies access to raw eye tracking data, researchers could install a less restricted SteamOS variant. Due to Linux support for SteamVR all these derivates could still access Steam (PCVR) games.

        The openness of Linux allowed tuning OS and UI for the smooth gaming experience that drove Steam Deck's success, incl. things not possible on Windows, like instant sleep, APU performance settings, on-the-fly input configuration or system wide frame rate limits or FSR. Similarly people could tune SteamOS builds for streaming, eye tracking UIs, VRChat with FBT, as a laptop replacement and more.