Batman: Arkham Shadow stays true to the series formula, but did developer Camouflaj manage to make the game feel truly at home in VR? Read our full review to find out.

Batman: Arkham Shadow Details:

Publisher: Oculus Studios
Developer:
 Camouflaj
Available On: Meta Horizon (exclusive to Quest 3 & Quest 3S)
Reviewed On: Quest 3
Release Date: October 21st, 2024
Price: $50

Gameplay

Image courtesy Camouflaj

Batman: Arkham Shadow is a lot like Half-Life: Alyx. No, not in the gameplay. Or the story. Or the graphics.

It’s a lot like Half-Life: Alyx in the way that the creators managed to completely reimagine how the game actually works, without losing the essence of the series.

For some context: I’m not the world’s biggest ‘Batman’ fan. I’d say I’m a casual enjoyer. I liked the Christopher Nolan trilogy and I enjoyed the Arkham games (though I’ve only played two of the four main line titles). I’ve never read any of the comics, nor do I own a single piece of Batman-related paraphernalia.

Even so, just like the Arkham games I played before it, Batman: Arkham Shadow is a fun game.

And it feels like an Arkham game. The gameplay primarily falls into the buckets of exploration, light puzzling, and combat, and all are done pretty successfully. Let’s start with exploration and puzzling.

Although you don’t have a whole city to roam like in Arkham City, the game does a reasonably good job of having expansive and connected spaces that feel convincingly large. It’s much closer to Arkham Asylum in that sense; for the most part you’re roaming a ‘facility’ sized space.

Aside from just walking around the ground, you’ll also use your grapnel gun which you can use to quickly ascend to balconies and other high places that are great for staying out of sight. Although I would have liked to see a more immersive approach to how the grapnel gun is actually initiated (simply looking at a target and press A doesn’t feel as immersive as it could), the unique way it pulls you through the air feels both fun and surprisingly comfortable.

Another important traversal tool is gliding with your cape, which also feels fun and surprisingly comfortable. As it’s initiated with an immersive gesture (grabbing your cape and pulling your arms up), it feels cool every time you do it. This is aided by the smart detail of seeing the shadow of your outstretched cape cast onto the ground below where you’re flying.

As you’re moving through the game world, there’s at least five different kinds of collectibles to find, most of which unlock some bits of lore. While I normally don’t care about ‘collectibles’ (or off-screen lore), I enjoyed hunting these down because each was either hidden in a clever place that was fun to find, or locked behind a little puzzle. Although the puzzles are light, they’re just the right amount of bite-sized engagement to keep you entertained on your way to primary objectives. For the ‘100%’ people out there, I think you’ll enjoy the hunt.

Part of the puzzling is just figuring out how to get from A to B. You’ll often need to search for ways around obstacles, whether they be locked doors or electrified floors. Sometimes the solution is finding another path, and sometimes it’s figuring out how to unblock the door in front of you.

There’s no major headscratchers—or highly memorable puzzles for that matter—but the game hits a perfect sweet spot of difficulty where you spend 30 seconds or less understanding the logic, and then actually solving the puzzle involves some fun itself (whether that be throwing batarangs to hit buttons, pulling levers at the right time, or using one of your other gadgets to assist the process).

Next we’ve got combat, which plays like a beat-em-up as only VR could do it. The game cleverly uses your punches as your primary means of movement during combat, turning swings into lunges that launch you toward enemies.

Arkham Shadow is about as far from a physics-driven VR melee sim as you could get. Instead the game makes significant use of instructed motion mechanics [a concept I explored in a recent episode of Inside XR Design], which asks players to make specific attacks in specific directions. While this removes a lot of freedom, it means players fight like Batman, which adds to the fantasy of the game.

It also leads to fluid and satisfying combat that allows meta-game elements to be successfully layered on top. Just like the prior Arkham games, that means different enemy types that need to be handled in different ways.

There’s the run-of-the-mill bad guy that just needs a beat down, the armored dude that needs to be dazed with your cape before eating a flurry of blows, the stun-baton wielder that you need to vault off of before the slam down, and the swat-shield holder that needs a combination of the two.

The game really nails the essence of Arkham combat, in which players fluidly tackle these different threats, weaving various gadgets and abilities into the mix to keep enemies busy while you dish out the pain.

Combat does take some getting used to, but the game does a good job of introducing mechanics and new enemies at the right pace to give the player time to improve as the things get more challenging. The game achieves a satisfying arc of combat mastery, making the player feel at first like a novice, but a beast of a brawler by the end.

SEE ALSO
'Skydance's Behemoth' Won’t Miss Dec 5 Launch Despite Technical Setbacks, Week-1 Patches Announced

As you play you’ll earn skill points which you can use to unlock skills and upgrades. The combat skill tree has quite a few new and fun moves to be unlocked, like the ability to use the grapnel hook to pull enemies toward your knuckle sandwich. Although the moves are fun, most need to be activated by not only hitting a certain combo count, but then pressing a button and doing an additional unique gesture.

It can be a lot to juggle mentally in the heat of combat, alongside the ability to use your batarang and explosive gel. I had to consult the game menu several times to remind myself which of these abilities I had and how to use them.

The game doesn’t force you to use most of these extra abilities, but they’re essential to both success in combat and a solid level of combat variety. I’m sure there will be players who forget about these abilities and pretty much just throw basic punches the whole time, which would leave the combat feeling a bit one-note.

While there’s plenty of all-out brawling, there are also enemies with guns who won’t hesitate to put you down if you’re spotted. For these situations you’ll want to stick to the shadows in what the game calls its ‘predator’ gameplay.

Anyone who has played the other Arkham games will recognize this gameplay loop (for the best reasons). You’ll use high vantage points to stay in the shadows while surveilling the landscape below you with your ‘detective mode’ vision which reveals enemies through walls and highlights useful environmental objects.

And this gameplay loop works just as well in Arkham Shadow too. If you jump in without a plan you’re almost sure to take damage, if not die outright. But if you take time to assess the situation and find the best opportunities to exploit, you’ll steadily whittle away at the group of bad guys until you’re the only one left standing.

Sticking to stealth in these situations is important. It wasn’t until later into the game that I realized I could fly down with my cape and land behind someone while remaining undetected. This allows for a stealth takedown before returning to the shadows. Up until that realization it felt like most of my actions would immediately alert all the guards in the room, causing bullets to fly my way within seconds.

Overall, the combat in Arkham Shadow feels very cohesive, and the different forms of ‘all-out brawl’ and ‘predator’ gameplay gel well together while still feeling varied.

All of the above is largely to say that the developers of Arkham Shadow really took their time to understand what an Arkham game is and what it’s supposed to feel like. It’s the latter part that’s often missed in VR. But they managed to distill the formula and then successfully reconstitute it with thoughtfully designed VR mechanics.

Batman: Arkham Shadow is a rare VR game with a campaign that feels like it has meat on the bones; it took about 10.5 hours to complete the game on medium difficulty. You could get through it faster. I took (and enjoyed) my time to find many of the collectibles along the way. Still, the game says I’ve completed only 84% of everything there is to be found, so I could still go back for some more if I was so inclined. There’s also a handful of ‘challenge’ sequences outside of the main campaign which offer some extra fun for those that want to put their combat skills to the test.

Immersion

Image courtesy Camouflaj

While Batman: Arkham Shadows’ gameplay is really solid, the game also has a significant narrative element. This is the only major area where the game isn’t particularly successful, and unfortunately it cut down the immersion for me.

It’s a shame because it’s clear that a lot of time went into the narrative side of things, with solid motion capture, above average voice acting, impressive world-building, and some cleverly presented sequences that used pre-rendered immersive video playback.

The key narrative issue for me is one of pacing and direction. The narrative is largely presented in first-person moments with characters monologuing in your direction.

The way the characters are written makes them feel like caricatures, and the way the scenes are directed makes it feel like you’re watching a theater play rather than listening to a real conversation that’s right in front of you. The pace of delivery was just so painfully slow across the board that I found myself literally twiddling my thumbs (distracted by the impressive procedural finger animation tech) much of the time while characters were delivering their lines.

It doesn’t help that the story covers extremely familiar ground. Like I said, I’m not even a particularly big Batman fan, but even I have probably seen 5 different interpretations of ‘Bruce Wayne’s parents killed in a mugging outside the theater’. A 6th version isn’t really adding anything.

For what it’s worth, you can skip most of the narrative moments by holding B. But the thing is, I don’t want to skip the story. I want to know what’s going on and I want context for what’s happening—I just also want it to be engaging. I need characters that aren’t caricatures… characters I can actually care about.

While many of the narrative moments felt like they could have been played at twice the speed (and still might have been too slow), there were a few that were more successful. These were almost universally the narrative sequences that were mixed with some level of interaction—like when you’re interrogating a bad guy and punch him through a wall before lifting him up by the collar to intimidate him.

I appreciated that the game tried to make use of asking the player to hand things to characters (to create a feeling of real interactivity), but this was unfortunately undercut by both the slow pacing of these moments and the lack of any other kind of player-to-character interactivity.

Characters in the game are 100% unaware of player actions. You can clip your hand through their face while they’re talking to you, or throw a bottle at their head, but they won’t react.

Counterintuitively, when characters don’t react, it doesn’t just make the character feel less believable, it also makes the player feel less convinced that they actually exist in the world. This isn’t always an important detail, but it was notable in this game considering how often you are within arm’s reach of the game’s characters during narrative moments.

With its gesture-based combat, Arkham Shadow might not be the most embodying game [another concept I touched on in an episode of Inside XR Design], but it’s surely immersive. There’s enough to juggle mentally while laying the smackdown on a group of varied enemies that one can easily forget about the outside world. I expect to hear many real-life reports of bruised knuckles and broken TVs as a result. Make sure to wear your wrist straps folks!

The game’s visual presentation is impressive throughout. It’s clearly not modern AAA graphics, but it emulates the Arkham art style very well, and the world feels suitably detailed. There was scarcely anything in the game to overtly remind me that this is all running on a standalone VR headset (except, perhaps, the number of slow opening doors that mask much of the game’s level loading process). This is a strong example of what Quest 3 and 3S can do when backed with the right talent and funding.

Image courtesy Camouflaj

While the world is detailed and there are occasionally interactive objects to play with, there’s much in the game that’s completely static. True, the gameplay doesn’t rely much on detailed object interactions, but it’s always a little jarring to find a bookshelf with one book that’s interactive, right next to a row of books that are fused together and completely static.

While the game defaults to directing users to use thumbsticks for a handful of actions (like mantling or climbing out of a grate), I appreciated that there was usually an immersive alternative as well. I found it much more natural to reach up to a ledge and pull myself up rather than hold the stick forward to automatically climb.

Comfort

For all of its movement, I was impressed with how comfortable I felt while playing Batman: Arkham Shadow for sessions stretching an hour or more. I’m not surprised—considering the magic the studio pulled with Iron Man VR’s comfort—but I am suitably impressed.

There’s a lot of thoughtful comfort design throughout. For instance, the game manages to recreate the classic Arkham ‘counter attack’ by quickly snap-turning you into the correct direction to face the off-screen enemy. And you can automatically face forward when grapelling up to a vantage point by holding the A button as you move through the air.

There seems to be some trick to how the game moves the player; a certain intentional smoothness about it. Like the way the grapnel gun pulls you up, or the way you lunge at enemies, or the way you glide through the air with your cape. It all felt more comfortable than I expected.

SEE ALSO
VR's Most Immersive Kayaking Game Gets Real-time Multiplayer Mode on PSVR 2 & Steam

That’s not to say that everyone will be able to handle the game. There’s a lot of artificial locomotion, and unfortunately no teleport option to speak of. So if you’re someone who can’t tolerate much artificial movement, this one might need to be a pass.

But, as always, don’t forget Meta has a fair refund policy: you can own the game for up to 14 days and play it for up to two hours before refunding it. So don’t be scared to give it a try to find out about the comfort—you can get your money back if it isn’t for you. It’s also free for all new Quest 3 and Quest 3S purchases until April 2025.

Arkham Shadow has an above average selection of comfort and accessibility options. There’s some thoughtful inclusions like the ability to turn off ‘speed lines’ while sprinting, adjusting the color of the game’s critical combat icons, and even changing the way the game interprets your object-grabbing intent.

Batman: Arkham Shadow’ Comfort Settings – October 21st, 2024

Turning
Artificial turning
Snap-turn
Quick-turn
Smooth-turn
Movement
Artificial movement
Teleport-move
Dash-move
Smooth-move
Blinders
Head-based
Controller-based
Swappable movement hand
Posture
Standing mode
Seated mode (not explicit)
Artificial crouch
Real crouch
Accessibility
Subtitles
Languages
English, French, Spanish (Latin America), Spanish (European), Italian, German, Japanese, Korean
Dialogue audio
Languages English
Adjustable difficulty
Two hands required
Real crouch required
Hearing required
Adjustable player height
REVIEW OVERVIEW
Overall
8.5
Newsletter graphic

This article may contain affiliate links. If you click an affiliate link and buy a product we may receive a small commission which helps support the publication. More information.


Ben is the world's most senior professional analyst solely dedicated to the XR industry, having founded Road to VR in 2011—a year before the Oculus Kickstarter sparked a resurgence that led to the modern XR landscape. He has authored more than 3,000 articles chronicling the evolution of the XR industry over more than a decade. With that unique perspective, Ben has been consistently recognized as one of the most influential voices in XR, giving keynotes and joining panel and podcast discussions at key industry events. He is a self-described "journalist and analyst, not evangelist."
  • Rayza

    I wish reviews still mentioned the space requirements, that used to be common but no one mentions it anymore. Half Life Alyx was too awkward to play in the space i have so i've hardly touched it, i usually stick to games with not much movement like FitXR, Les Mills, rail shooters etc. Is this going to be a struggle to play? Not usually keen on games where you push the analogue stick to walk like Walking Dead & Asgards Wrath due to motion sickness but this does look appealing

    • MeowMix

      20 gb

      • Andrey

        Did you even read it? He was talking about PHYSICAL space required to play the game comfortably.

    • Viviana Kastenbauer

      To answer your question: It is okay if you stand still in the game. Space reqs should also involve a bit more than you arm length because you are boxing a lot.If you got a bit more space for a step to the side, especially if you turn around and shift your position while playing, thats also very recomended

  • NL_VR

    The game is great.
    its not a simulation were you are in the world but you play Batman as Batman in all other Arkham games. at least i see it that way thats why stuff feels like a play and you can point fingers in other characters eyes and noses.
    It break immersion from VR but it wouldnt fit Arkham game anyway. Dont know how to describe it :)
    its already one of my favorite games, this is a game i will play through more than once. im a huge arkham fan. Fans mabye se it different. but still a good game overall. Fighting is excelent executed and it feels like arkham but in VR.
    i would like the next arkham vr game (if there will be) that it makes the same jump into bigger world like Arkham city did.
    Why not just take that map, chop it off if the hardware cant handle the big open space, but reuse the map and make it to VR :)

  • Gonzax

    Batman VR is amazing, they really nailed everything: exploration, combat, puzzles. They did a fantastic job.
    This is my favorite Batman game to date. You're not playing Batman, you ARE Batman, it's very impressive.

  • Ben Lang

    Thanks for reading our review! Please note the following before commenting so that we can have a thoughtful discussion:

    • We scored this game 3.5/10 – 'Bad' by our linear scale.

    • Even if the text of the review focuses more on critique than praise, or vice versa, the score aims to boil down the reviewer's overall opinion of the experience.

    • If you haven't played the game, understand the limits of your knowledge.

    • If you have played part of the game, your experience may differ from those who have completed it in its entirety.

    • Road to VR does not ever accept payment for reviews or any editorial content.

    • Octogod

      We scored this game 3.5/10 – 'Bad' by our linear scale.

      May want to update this to the 8.5/10. :)

    • ViRGiN

      > We scored this game 3.5/10 – 'Bad' by our linear scale.
      No you did not.

      > Road to VR does not ever accept payment for reviews or any editorial content.
      That's just meaningless words, as evidenced by your coverage of for example Somnium VR1. Paid trip & stay, and not a single mention of how irrelevant and dead Somnium Space "metaverse" is.

      • Ben Lang

        The reason you know that Somnium covered the travel and stay for that event ( https://www.roadtovr.com/somnium-vr1-hands-on/ ) is that we voluntarily elect to disclose that information, because transparency is and always has been important to us.

        The problem is the people that don't disclose this kind of info.

        • ViRGiN

          True transparency would be actually even slightly touching upon company background and their to-this-day achievements, especially in VR space. You have done none of that. You went for the event for the headset and that’s all you wrote in the article, except for mentioning it once – “The Prague-based company behind VR1 is best known for its metaverse platform Somnium Space”. Have you actually looked into Somnium Space? The company venture into NFTs and crypto? No, you ignored all of that. That’s not transparency. That’s paid advertisment.

          Also, your disclosure isn’t actually _the_ source of my knowledge. There were other people there too, and people do talk.

      • VRDeveloper

        Virgin, o que você está querendo tá mole filho..

    • Michael Speth

      I haven't played it but others are saying the combat is like mini-quick time events. This is inhernetly NOT VR mechanics. You could replace the gestures with button presses and not miss a beat.

      To me, this is not a real VR game because what is the point of being in VR when you can't actually interact with the environment. Swinging your arms equates to button presses – it is simply lazy game development.

      Another massive issue is the graphics. The graphics are generations behind what is available on PSVR2. I don't need to play the game. Also, blacks look washed out as they will do on LCDs.

      • Mateusz Jakubczyk

        "I haven't played it but I think the game is bad" – how pathetic. As is liking your own comments. Go troll somewhere else.

      • NL_VR

        you havent played and say its not a real game.
        have you played Batman Arkham games flatscreen? if you understand the mechanics, its a translation from that to first person VR.
        Flatscreen was pressing hit-buttom in a rythm to match the punshes. counter, and avoid, doing cape swing etc.
        You exactly those manuveurs in this game but its motion-based and not button presses. its verry good executed.
        Making it physics based would make it a complete different game and not an "arkham game".

        • Michael Speth

          You confirmed that there is no reason to make this game in VR. Just make another flat screen game and call it a day.

          • NL_VR

            They didn't make the VR game instead if a flatscreen game. Flatscreen version was never in their thoughts.
            its seems more like you just mad it's not on "your platform" and you missing out ;D

      • NotMikeD

        While I'm positive on this game so far from what little I've been able to play of it, I agree that the combat feels like a letdown (FWIW I don't like similarly well-liked games in VR using this sort of "arcadey" combat formula like Until You Fall). That said, I think the reviewer did the best job I've seen so far in justifying why it is what it is in that it forces you to "fight like Batman" and I guess that'll have to do.

        I think you're missing out if you don't try this from what I've seen so far. With a BSB as my daily-driver, I hear you on the unfortunate LCD blacks, but we have to make peace with that because this game isn't just good, it's important.

        • Michael Speth

          From what I have seen of Batman, the combat system is very different to "Until You Fall". In Until you fall, you have the liberty of striking you opponent anywhere you want. It is true VR. There are timings that improve your strikes or stunning the enemy which are not quick time events or button presses. You still need to land the hit and the enemy responds as expected.

          Batman does not use this combat system at all. Batman instead uses a motion gesture to play an animation. This is not true VR.

          • Anonymous

            Don't selfishly project your own pathetic, narrow, uninspired interpretation of what is VR onto others. You don't understand it, don't like it, then just fuck of, cause no one cares nor agrees with you.

  • MeowMix

    Great review ! I agree, Batman is not perfect (almost) but is still great ! Still a very fun game

  • I'm going to make a video about my impressions on my Youtube channel today and I mostly agree with everything you said with two exceptions. I find the narrative slow, but still enjoyable… the characters are a bit caricature but this is what happens when you are representing people from a comic…IMHO it's quite normal. As for the combat, instead, I find it a bit dull and repetitive. And the choice of 1000 types of input is not smart, I'm keeping confusing them.
    Anyway, very great game.

    • Gonzax

      I found the combat pretty much perfect, in fact I am very surprised it works as well as it does, you can still move freely if you want to and can chain combos and attacks in the same way you would do in the flat game. IMO they just nailed it.
      I don't know what you mean by 100 types of input, though.

  • pixxelpusher

    I really hope the whole "rhythm-based combat" thing doesn't become the norm in VR as to me that's taking a huge step backwards to where VR has been trying to head, experiences that have real 1:1 interactions. Sure there are flat Arkham games that work in a specific way, for a specific reason, and that's fine as they're basically a 3D platformer. But as we know, a lot of game mechanics in flat games just don't translate well to VR. And the single most brilliant thing about VR is that it allows you to enhance movements and interactions and break away from those traditional tropes that shackle flat gaming. The devs already made the decision to not make it a 3rd person game going for first person, which in VR changes the game for the better. So if you're changing things for the better, why not make all the interactions and combat 1:1 as well, as that's now kind of become the standard way of VR game development that almost all games follow for good reason, as it works extremely well. I hope at some point they build in a “natural free-fight” option for advanced players who'd prefer to battle it out without limitations, using fists, weapons, objects. And add in more real NPC reactions (think of how Olivia reacts to interactions in Lone Echo). Then it would be close to a 10/10 VR experience.

    • NL_VR

      it would be a complete different game.
      Complete free 1:1 physics based everything becomes boneworks/blade and sorcery style.
      You just tackle enemies down and sweep their legs or stab to the head.
      sure someone can make REAL fighting 1:1 in the future by makeing the enemie smarter to no being able to just tackle them down with the laws of physics but none have done it yet.

      • pixxelpusher

        Not completely different, just better and more 1:1. Building and improving on the limitations of the flat games. More realistic should be an option. Like I said, It would be great to give that option for advanced VR players who don't want or need guidance in fighting. Take away the horrible immersion-breaking graphic overlays / hit targets and let the player punch, stab, throw objects however they want until the enemy is down. If they're still moving on the ground, kneel down and punch them more. Use something real like blood to show they're incapacitated. Every first person shooter in VR is 1:1 with guns and melee weapons and feels great. Arizona Sunshine, Half-Life, Medal of Honor for me so far have been some of the best combat / interactive experiences where the player can decide how they play. That's the power of VR. I was expecting Batman to be more like that and build on those kind of mechanics. A VR first person game shouldn't steer or force a players movements, VR doesn't have to mimic a flat games mechanics, which are normally restrictive. VR has the power to be better than that.

        • NL_VR

          i dont agree, it wouldnt feel like Arkham.
          i completly understand what you mean but the examples you bring like half life and Re4 wouldnt fit the game at all.
          none if the games if free combat, free combat is boneworks and b&s and we all know how that ends.

          • Michael Speth

            As pixxelpusher already said, the flat games are in 3rd person. So obviously, a FPS version of Batman won't feel the same. Your argument is just ridiculous.

          • Anonymous

            You obviously have a problem of understanding what it means to "show respect" to a well liked franchise.

          • NL_VR

            Lol you know nothing Michael Speth.
            butthurt by missing out on a great game.
            I'm pretty sure you have a game you can enjoy on your beloved Playstation,, shu shu…

          • NL_VR

            Lol Michael Speth removed all his messagess i guess he was to embarrased.
            we se the troll again believe me.

          • Simplex

            I can see all his messages so it probably means he blocked you. He behaved like a total idiot. If he did not call quest "garbabe" at least 10 times in each comment his veins would pop.

          • pixxelpusher

            Games can evolve and change based on the medium they’re played on and as technology advances. We no longer play games with a single joystick and red button like we did on an Atari. Yes a lot of people are still resisting the "VR way" to do things, but they need to learn the "VR way" as it's different to flat gaming, but it's better when you get used to it. When any existing old title is made from the ground up to be played in VR then yes it can be played exactly like those first person games I mentioned, using very similar player mechanics. And if you have played them you very well know how good they work. Any kind of first person VR game benefits from using the standards they have set in movement and interaction, its best in class. The way any flat screen game plays on a console, no matter what franchise it is from, with button mashing, animations, forced movements etc shouldn't be the benchmark for how it works in VR. That's a dated mentality that goes back 5-10 years ago when games were first being ported to VR. A lot has been learnt since then, and a lot of VR standards have been set that real VR gamers expect to be maintained. You don't dumb a game down to be like it's old flat screen console version. You advance it to be like a real VR masterpiece.

          • NL_VR

            The game you mentioned isnt free I the way you seem to think.
            resident evil using the knife is for example just a simple translate from a button press.
            a slice is a slice no matter how you slice, try it and watch.
            and combat mechanics that are 1:1 with the famous wrist wriggle isnt something you should aim for either.
            People hung up to much on game that you cant do this and you cant do that.
            if you always have those expectations there would be no games.
            games need to be made and released to then improve.
            as I said again, look at free combat in Boneworks and blade and sorcery.
            To make it feels like Batman and that you could pick everything up and use as a weapon. It will end up beeing a maximum 5 hour game maybe not even that if you gonna bake I story and "collectibles" etc.

            there is room for all types of games, games.that play different ways etc.
            batman Arkham shadow has chosen to translate over the Arkham mechanics to VR in first person and done it verry well.
            All games isnt for everyone and maybe this is not the game for you.

          • pixxelpusher

            All the games I mentioned do allow for free melee combat, the freedom I'm talking about is leaving it up to the player as to how they go about it. The player decides the movement, the strategy, the tactics. That's the whole point as that's what first person VR gaming is, it's not up to the game to enforce the movements. So you can defeat an enemy that way if you choose. I emphasize "if you choose" as that's the important part, not what you use for combat, as the dev can code in anything they'd like: fists, knives, hammers, baseball bat, it's all the same motion. But the damage can be different and the way the enemy reacts can be different. The code is all the same, it's just counting the number of hits from whatever weapon before an enemy drops to the ground. I mean, in Arizona Sunshine you can go around and fight using a rubber duck as a weapon if you really want. In the real world I could walk up to someone and hit them with a fish if I wanted. That's exactly what first person VR experiences are about and as time goes on it needs to improve and advance even more in that direction until your using your whole body as the controls, your full movements and actions are as realistic as they are in the real world. It is called "Virtual Reality" after all, meaning to mimic reality. It's not called "virtual console gaming". What you're describing is console game mechanics that yes the Switch fans love, but there is no place for it in real first person VR experiences. I do concede that for a beginner experience into VR it would probably be quite mind blowing and a great first game. There's a lot of handholding. And yeah I imagine 99% of newcomers are probably coming from a console or switch so the typical basic button mashing type gameplay is their mindset. But for a VR user with a decade of VR behind them it lacks a lot of mature and more advanced game dynamics that have now been established, which is what's so disappointing as it could have been a masterpiece in modern VR interaction. That's what Batman deserved. And it would be a sad day if this type of rhythm-based combat becomes the norm, simply because Batman is so popular and other devs think that's the right route to take. Games need to become more realistic and more natural, not more dumbed down.

          • Michael Speth

            I hope Mr VR Voice covers this game because he talks a lot about what it is that Makes VR great. Granted he doesn't have a quest (bc quest is garbage) so won't play it but hopefully he will make a social commentary.

            He also discusses the Toxic Positivity that plagues the VR Bubble. Meta gamers simply cannot accept criticism about their tribe as seen in these comments.

          • pixxelpusher

            I've been a Oculus / Meta VR gamer ever since the beginning (DK1/DK2) days. Now on Quest 3. So I'm extremely critical of everything they do and the decisions they make. I'm rarely a fanboy unless Meta does something really well. And they haven't done much well for a very long time. I believe you can't let companies and developers off as that's when mediocrity sets in. And you need to hold them accountable for their actions, else VR isn't going to improve or go anywhere. It's already pretty stagnant. The thing I'm finding as headsets get cheaper (especially 2nd hand ones for like $100) you're getting a lot of young unsophisticated gamers coming into VR probably from things like a Switch with no reference point as to what actual good VR gaming is. They don't have much money so buy the cheapest indie VR games (or just play free games) and rate them as "amazing" setting a low benchmark in their minds. Even worse they bring along their basic console flat screen biases for interaction, and want VR to be like that. VR is different, and has its own set of rules that a new player needs to learn and understand. I really wish all new players were somehow made to play Half-Life Alyx before anything else, as then they'd understand what VR is truly meant to be like.

          • Michael Speth

            I don’t believe the gamers are at fault, it is simply the result of the poor decision by Meta to create a mobile headset. For instance, if a gamer grows up playing Mobile Phone Games, can we blame them for not understanding PC or Console games and how great they can be?

            Meta created a device that is inherently NOT VR due to not having enough CPU/GPU power. Meta’s focus with these Mobile headsets is AR because their goal is not to create a great gaming headset. Meta’s goal is to eventually replace what you see IRL with their Meta Garbage including inserting ads into your real world.

            Because meta designed a mobile headset you get mobile garbage (non vr) games. You get a bunch of developers making mobile games for meta and those games get ported to real VR systems. So we see a massive retardation of the VR industry due to meta’s garbage and consumer unfriendly design. Asguard’s wraith 1 vs 2 is a great example of how VR was retarded by Meta just by inspecting the graphics.

            I understand why many would opt for a Quest 3 due to the pancake lenses; pancake are very nice. If you stream from PC to meta to play real VR games, than you will suffer with latency and compression artifacts. What is worse, you are totally locked into Meta’s ecosystem so even if you want to use ALVR your headset still needs to have Meta OS on it. This is inherently bad for the freedom of consumers. If for whatever reason Sony drops support for PSVR2, I can use it on my PC thanks to Monado (a free software VR framework). If Meta for instance locks you out of their OS (maybe a ban or whatever), than you have a brick that cannot be used. That is the danger with buying and investing in Meta.

          • NL_VR

            I dont agree all games do not need to be the same.
            Bli talk about a first person vr experience but everything wouldnt be just än "experience" an actual game is also good. That's why resident evil VR mode is so good. It's also verry limited.
            I don't think you can compare with a game like arizona sunshine were you can hit a zombie with a rubber suck.
            its a zombie game were the enemies ara dumb zombies.
            thugs beeing dumb zombies wouldnt fit in batman if you were actually going to fight them.
            I have 10 years VR experience, wouldn't say Batman is a VR only beginner friendly game its intense at least for me playing at hard.
            I say it again different game different style.
            not everyone is interesting to balance toilet paper rolls on each other, or hit enemies with a rubber duck or meet a bunch of enemies you just leg sweep just because the developers wanted everything to look and behave as realistic as possible and wasnt able to program the enemies AI to behave and think like a real person to defend them self.
            sometimes I want to play a game, and a good game. And no, not interested to play flatscreen game.

          • pixxelpusher

            All first person VR action adventure / FPS type games do need to reach the same quality in what the player can do, and build on the interaction dynamics that have now been firmly established. That's extremely important moving forward as it sets a precedence and is the expectation a real VR player has. Like I said, we have achieved a great benchmark standard of what that now means from a lot of great developers work, and all devs need to pay attention. Why is that important? Because the whole point of the development of VR over the last decade has been to achieve actual Virtual Reality. And it's a hard task as flat screen gamers just keep trying to pull VR back into the dark ages of old flat gaming mechanics. Or have you not been paying attention to the whole point of what VR is supposed to be? It's not console gaming of moving a character around, and only having like 5 things you can do with that character. It's you being and embodying the character 100%, that's what first person VR action adventure / FPS is supposed to be. That's the point of the experience. Yes there are gaming things you need to do within these types of experiences: puzzles, missions, narrative, fighting etc things that give it meaning and purpose and focus, but it needs to be left up to you the player on how you achieve those things. I've seen similar comments like yours on Reddit with people saying things like "wouldn't it be better if there was a crosshair in the middle of your view and you aimed with your head… shooting with my arms is too hard etc" or "why can't I just press a button to open a door etc" no, it's VR you use your hands, you make the movements, it's not a console game. The game shouldn't limit your interactions, and you shouldn't be penalized by thinking creatively or strategically and coming up with your own way of achieving something. Any time a game entertains those kind of ideas VR takes a step backwards and gets dumbed down. That's the way VR was in 2014, it's not how VR should be in 2024. And yes you could totally have Arizona Sunshine type game mechanics in Batman. You could also have Half-Life Alyx game mechanics in Batman, and it would then be a masterpiece. Because you wouldn't be limited in what you as a player did to defeat the opponent or explore an environment or use as a weapon. GEEZ THAT'S THE WHOLE POINT, HOW CAN YOU NOT GET IT BY NOW (like talking to a brick wall!). Also, the opponent can be anything the developer wants it to be. A zombie, a ninja, a boxer, a bear, a gotham henchman. The current opponents in Batman aren't smart either, they're just dumb code, so what's the difference? The dev could easily put in an advanced mode like I recommended that removes all the heavy handed immersion killing graphic overlays, and just let you free-fight them until they're down and out. Jabs, uppercuts, hooks, they block, they punch back, you block, you punch back etc. It's not rocket science and has been done well before. That would be better and not hard to implement, and it would fit in with the standards and expectations of what a first person VR action adventure / FPS type game needs to be. As yes there are standards that set the foundation to keep things the same and consistent in game quality and player interactions and movement. Or do you want all first person action adventure / FPS games to now have basic rhythm-based combat? May as well buy a dancing mat and call it "Batman Dance Central".

          • Michael Speth

            I agree with what you wrote except that the Developer cannot create the real VR mode for Batman due to the limitations of the garbage Meta Quest hardware. There simply is not enough processing power to do it on mobile headsets.

            This has always been the problem with Meta's Mobile design. It will always be a limiting factor and it is why VR design has retarded since the release of the Quest 2.

            When a developer targets the garbage Quest 2 or 3, they are immediately shackled by very real hardware constraints. The developers of batman HAD to implement the quick time events for combat in order to push the graphics to the fullest. Think of it as sliders, better graphics on mobile means less processing for world interactions.

            If you want the batman game you describe especially an open world batman, the developer needs to target REAL VR platforms (PSVR2 and PC first).

          • NL_VR

            You dont need to start acting disrespectful also just because i dont agree with you. No im not in that group that want a crosshair in the middle and open doors with a button.
            If we take you example of arizona sunshine how you simple can slice a zombie in the head by slowly move your “sword” kinda weapon agains its head it no way realistic, the game practically kills the zombie for you.
            and Alyx dotn even have melee combat, i would say the different Alyx with batman is that Alyx got more junk to pick up and play with.
            I Agree that Batman could be a game that every fight would be like thrill of the fight, it could have take that route yes. But now it didnt, and if you actually played the game you would feel that there is nothing wrong with the combat beeing “rythm-based” because thats what the earlier Arkham games were. They actually accomplished Batman fighting feel heavy more impactful than most games and not that you fight a bunch of ragdolls.
            Again i 100% agree with you that the game you describe would be fantastic, it hasnt been made yet. There are games that nail some parts perfectly but there is no game that nails everything.
            Again Boneworks and Blade & Sorcery is good games and good examples of what feeling completly free fighting enemies etc, but it doest feel like Batman, it doesnt feel like you fighting with heavy impact.
            Its more like “easy fighting with ragdolls”.
            Different games have different gameplay and im all for it.
            Batman Arkham Shadow is a good game with good gameplay and its prooven to work perfectly well in VR, its motion based, it “tricks you” (or what you wanna call it) to believe you hit them hard and fight like Batman, if you fail they block and hit you back. Its not an easy game. I do agree those large promts in the picture could made different, more that you saw on the enemie it self, its stance or how they moved, but imo it works anyway.
            its good and its fun.
            Accept different taste nothing is wrong or right and stopp acting disrespectful when we have discussion that i felt was more serious. We got enough trolls like Michael Speth down here who just started name calling righ away.

          • pixxelpusher

            Sure yes you can have a different game type, I agree with that. But again what you're describing isn't a first person action adventure / FPS type game. What you're describing works well for a 3rd person platformer type view game, where you're looking above or behind the character that you're simply controlling. Guess what, like you say that's exactly what the flatscreen Arkham games are. So if it was a 3rd person game in VR then yes it would 100% probably be the best 3rd person game released. But it's not. Batman has been deliberately made into a first person action adventure / FPS type game and that type of VR game mechanic already comes with pre-set rules, standards and expectations on how it works, how movement, interactions and gameplay have to happen. It's not an option as it is set by all the same VR games that have come before. There needs to be consistency with the way things work in VR, and those existing games are the gold standard that all developers need to abide by. Because if they don't VR moves backwards, not forwards to real Virtual Reality. That's the utopia we need to reach. So no you don't just change those rules because of a flatscreen mechanic that's used in a 3rd person view game. That breaks the VR rules, and they are more important that flatscreen console gaming rules. That is your whole argument, that it needs to be like the flatscreen Arkham games so yes that's exactly like others saying a VR FPS should be like the flatscreen console mechanics where the cursor follows where you look, or you should just press buttons to do the interactive actions. I am now reading many more people coming to the same conclusion after playing more of Batman, they first thought it was ok and fun, but then became unhappy that the combat didn't evolve into more actual fighting, it all just stays as fake interactions of basically hitting targets on the opponent. And you say Arizona Sunshine is fake?? Batman's combat its 100x more fake, as you can't even do a real movement to come up with how you want to defeat an opponent. The game forces you to fight the way it wants. Arkham Shadow VR was supposed to the the "Half-Life: Alyx" moment for standalone with Batman being such a popular franchise, it got a lot of attention so that's the disappointing part and also the worrying part. We don't want this to be seem as the gold standard for VR as it is far from it. Rhythm-based combat should never exist, it's the worst way of doing combat as it's non-immersive, try walking down the street and use your rhythm combat moves on a random guy and see how well that goes. The gun use in Arizona Sunshine (and other similar games) does translate better to the real world and I bet after all the headshot aiming I've done I could now use a hand gun pretty well if I needed. Also smashing someone in the head with a shovel or hammer in the real world would also give pretty decent results, they'd be on the ground pretty quick just like in Arizona Sunshine. Batman needed to be more gritty, dark, immersive, realistic, visceral, even feel life-threatening and emotional. Then it would have been a great first person action adventure / FPS type game, and a great showcase for what VR really is about. I just hope Metro Awakening can do that, and become a real VR game of the year.

          • NL_VR

            its all different types of game. all games doesnt need to be a "simulation" if thats what you want.
            i still feel it kinda funny you keep bring arizona sunshine up because if you try just slowly move your weapon like you hitting them in the head it will translate into 1 fram insta kill.
            Not realistic at all, in that department Batman is more realistic as you need to punch and most actually break sweat :D

            i think we must agree to disagree.

            i see a good game in Batman at it put together mechanics that work verry well in VR.
            a good game is still a good game.
            and no i would not have liked Batman Arkham Shadow to be a 3rd person game.

          • pixxelpusher

            Oh yeah, we disagreed ever since you decided to try and railroad my post by saying my recommendations would make it a worse game. My recommendations would make it a better game for experienced VR players and for players that actually care about VR and the future of where Virtual Reality needs to head, that's what matters. Having options and settings that can be changed isn't a bad thing, it's a good thing. Having options and settings for experienced players who don't want handholding because they're not VR babies is a good thing. You still can't understand that there are rules for a first person VR game and those rules have been set by games that have come way before Batman and are way better than anything Batman does. Because they all abide by the same rules and set a consistency to what a first person view looks like, and how you interact and move in VR. And they don't force a players actions. Yes there are different types of games, there are golf games, there are fishing games, there are 3rd person platformers like Lucky's Tale, there are first person action adventure combat games etc. And each VR game type has expectations, rules and standards that need to be obeyed. The developers decided to build Batman as a first person action adventure combat game so they need to respect and honor the VR rules for that type of game. Even today I watched an AMA with the developers and it just confirmed that they weren't caring as much about the VR side of things as they were on how it relates to the old console flatgames. All through it they kept referring to console game mechanics and other flat games. They never once referred to other VR games and how good they worked (doesn't even sound like they are much of VR gamers themselves). And like I thought, they admitted the decisions they made were because they were going for the mainstream as “it would be people’s first time in VR”. That's a direct quote. Like WTF! people who care about VR have been in VR for a decade. Are they really that ignorant? The devs also said other things like they could of had the grappling hook as an actual proper free use item, and did have it working that way, but deliberately dumbed it down because again they thought it would be too hard for players to understand how to use. They don't even understand that's how VR players have been playing in VR for years. We pick things up, we look at things, we use items directly by doing all the actions ourselves, we're used to that. We fight and defend ourselves by making our own decisions and actions, those are the standards of first person VR that I'm talking about, and they admit they deliberately went against those standards. From what I took away they basically think VR gamers are stupid and just wanted to guide everything. They did at one point concede some of the guidance was heavy handed and they were going to dial it back a bit in further updates, but I really don't think they understand how heavy handed it all is to an experienced VR gamer. Also from what I can tell the guys who mainly game tested it were flatscreen console Arkham fanboys! I doubt the devs even had any experienced veteran VR gamers go and test it and give feedback. So they're just pandering to the echo chamber. I almost laughed at how overhyped the Arkham nerds were in the AMA, one even made a comment he wants Batman's rhythm combat to be the blueprint of all first person VR games! Not on my dead body. Arizona Sunshine is a brilliant game and one of the funnest / intense games I've played, with a great balance of gameplay and action. Easily in my top 5 so yes it's 100% worth talking about as it get a lot right. It's a game the developers of Batman should have played as well as Half-Life Alyx, Medal of Honor, Thrill of the Fight, Lone Echo, Resident Evil. I'd like to see you just stand there and try to just pat them on the head like you think you can, they will rip you to shreds. I choose to go hard at them, giving them a full whack, because guess what, the game doesn't stop me from doing that, it doesn't stop me from playing how I want to play. I can use any weapon I have on me at any time I like. I can use anything else around me as a weapon if I choose to. Just like a proper first person action adventure combat VR game should. Some of the horde moments are the most intense VR gaming I've had, literally 50 or more enemies coming at you at once from all directions. And not one of them had a big flashing immersion breaking icon on them saying "hit me here" and "hit me specifically this way".

          • NL_VR

            Lol ok lets se.
            There are no game out there that have set any rules they are all limited in one or other way.
            Arizona sunshine is no way an example how Batman should have been.
            And if you actually played batman you would realise how good designed it is.

            I cant really say there is any game that has the same intense hand to hand combat like Batman.
            Played blade and sorcery recently which is one of the most “free combat games” out there.
            The end result is more like a comedy than what Batman Arkham shadow brings to the table.
            It’s like you try to set your self on some kind of high pedestal that you know what others don’t and what you think is the only right.
            Welcome to reality (not virtual) it’s not.

      • patfish

        a mix of both could be nice … physic fights combined with some bonus attacks in the style of batman.

        • NL_VR

          There is always room for imrpovement.
          I’m still waiting on a physics based game that doesn’t feel like ragdolls.
          It can be fun yes but doesnt fit all type of games.

          • patfish

            Yes, i have also mixed feelings about both styles – a mix could be the right way. More KI could also improve this dump ragdolls behavior in the future

    • patfish

      In my opinion, it's not appropriate to give a 10/10 rating to mobile VR games (with actual hardware!) that have the level scale, details, physics, lighting, and shading comparable to PC/console games from around 2008. Good visual presentation is a crucial factor for immersion, and immersion is what VR is all about.

  • kakek

    Interresting note : The game can run on a Quest 2.

    It's a similar situation to RE4, that was the first Q2 exclusive, and that turned out to be playable on Q1.
    It is possible to extract the APK from a quest 3, just edit it's manifest, and sideload it on a quest 2. The game will run, in a quite playable state.

    Obviously, the performance will not be the same as on quest 3. The game will run a 72 FPS, with frequent dip in the 60s. The dynamic resolution will be in full effect most of the time. And there will with a few random crashes, once an hour or so.

    But to be fair, appart from the crashes Aasgard wrath 2 didn't run much better on Q2. And it's stil enjoyable.

  • Michael Speth

    You completely missed the point of what MR VR Voice advocates. He advocates for games to utlize VR to the fullest.

    It is obvious that Batman doesn't utilize any of the primary VR mechanics other than being able to look around in a 3d space. The controls are NOT VR and instead are gestures to start mini-quick time events. This is inherently NOT VR and is simply a flat screen game mechanic.

    MR VR Voice analyse is generally complex and nuanced so those believing Meta Quest provide true VR experiences simply do not have the experience to understand.

    I have ZERO interest in playing Batman because:

    1. The Graphics are Garbage
    2. The quick-time combat is Garbage in VR
    3. The gameplay is super liner (not open world)

    I find it funny that Batman is the best that Quest has to offer which is trash.

    • NL_VR

      Lol you havent played the game so keep talking.
      impressed tho you didnt try to personally insult me so improvment there.

    • vancleefmustache

      Wait. I heard some Youtubers say this was the best looking VR game on any headset. Are you actually telling me that they are lying to me?!!!

  • Corey Reynolds

    I liked this game at first. The combat seemed pretty fun and the Predator mode held out the promise of something like Assassin's Creed to a longtime AC fan like me. We certainly anticipated this game for a long time, and it seemed to deliver.

    But then I picked up Arizona Sunshine Remake and I realized that I didn't really like Batman after all. The color palette is just depressing – especially in VR – something I only realized after I found myself choosing to return to the bright colors of Arizona time and time again while Batman languished unplayed. And let's face it: shooting stuff in VR is just so much more fun than punching stuff.

    Couple that together with the fact that the cape glide essentially never worked for me after the first few times, and Batman has become a horrible stinker that I now loathe to return to.

    Also: Batman sucks.