HTC Vive Pro launched in April 2018 with a few key improvements over the company’s original 2016 HTC Vive headset, although its launch was marred somewhat by its steep retail price of $800 for the headset alone. Now the company appears to be responding to recent competition in the space by cutting the price of its Vive Pro headset permanently to $600.

Alongside the addition of SteamVR 2.0 tracking sensors, integrated audio, and ergonomic head strap, one of the biggest improvements to Vive Pro was undoubtedly its displays, which feature dual 1,440 × 1,600 AMOLEDs—a clear upgrade over Vive’s 1,080 × 1,200 per lens resolution. That works out roughly to a 77% increase in the number of pixels for each eye.

The Valve Index, a direct competitor to Vive Pro, sells for $500 for the headset alone however, which boasts the same resolution as Vive Pro but at a slightly larger field of view; Vive Pro is somewhere around 110 degrees while Valve Index is around 120-130 degrees. If you want to know more about Index, check out our deep dive review.

Image courtesy HTC

Moreover, HTC is now selling its ‘Vive Pro Full Kit‘ for $1,200, which includes a pair of the newer SteamVR 2.0 base stations and a pair of Vive wand controllers. Notably, Valve is selling the superior all-in Index bundle with the much improved Index controllers and SteamVR 2.0 base stations for $1,000.

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'Half-Life: Alyx' Will Run on All SteamVR Headsets, Free for Index Owners

You might think HTC would be able to serve up a cheaper all-in SteamVR 2.0 bundle due to the inclusion of the aging Vive wands, making HTC’s new pricing scheme for Vive Pro overall a bit of a perplexing move.

Additionally, HTC is also offering up its ‘Vive Pro Starter Kit‘ for $900, which includes the Vive Pro headset, a pair of older SteamVR 1.0 base stations, and two Vive wand controllers.

Vive Pro, whether purchased through a bundle or the headset alone, comes along with a six-month free trial of Viveport Infinity (a $78 value), the company’s Netflix-style game service that lets you download a number of participating games from the digital distribution platform Viveport.

This article may contain affiliate links. If you click an affiliate link and buy a product we may receive a small commission which helps support the publication. See here for more information.


  • Uncle Right

    Vive Pro has nasty screen door effect like other VR headsets, while Samsung Odyssey+ has the same panel as Vive Pro (which buys it from Samsung), but no screen-door effect at all. What’s more, you can buy Odyssey+, the whole package, for 229$-299$ regularly, every few months when there is a discount. For now, only 3 headsets count. Odyssey+ as the best price-quality, Valve Index as the best FOV and good tracking, yet EXPENSIVE or… HP Reverb for some, who like 2k x 2k industry best resolution. Last month I bought Odyssey+ for 229$ + 85 USD for DHL and duty to Europe. I replace my Odyssey+ every 5-6 months when there is a promo for it. I sell the older Odyssey+ and get the new one. This way I own 3rd Odyssey+ within 1 year and 3 months, always having the fresh revision and model. Smart? ;)

    • wow

      Index does not have the best fov, pimax does. 5k+ is a wild headset… Even the small fov mode at 120hz is the widest fov at 2k resolution. Thank god I have a 2080ti.

      • Ad

        Unfortunately that is not only more expensive but the FOV doesn’t work for everyone. The Index is all around the best headset right now.

        • wow

          Ugh what? Lmao
          Small mode on Pimax headsets are the biggest FOV for everyone.. even look at that chart the guy posted below.
          Large mode almost doubles oculus/ some wmr which is absolutely insane.

          • Andres Velasco

            Erm yes and no. I own pretty much all of the headsets including the Pimax. The Problem with the Pimax FOV is that is heavy dependent of your IPD. A good portion of people can mitigate or close to mitigate the barrel distortion via Pitool. But not ‘everyone’. You saying that shows your lack of understanding. Yes, The Pimax is pretty good headset, but it can be finicky. I personally can not rid of some distortion, but still pretty good. The 8k X seem to be a clear upgrade with the native higher res input to each display

          • Is the Pimax uncomfortable?

          • wow

            Yes, sadly. No VR covers are made for it at the moment not even by VRcovers. I bought a cheap 20mm Vive one off amazon which helps a bit.
            I have a skinny face with a low IPD, so I need some sort of DAS and a proper VR cover made for it.
            This goes back to Pimax’s crappy business model by not delivering what they are promising then they decide to spread themselves thinner by releasing new headsets.

          • wow

            i only get distortion off large mode which I don’t typically use because no PC can’t handle it at 1.5x-2x SS which i find more important. Even at small it’s the widest FOV out there and normal already changes the game.

          • What about the distortion and the flat screen look…

          • wow

            try it before you say something dumb like that. You realize all the youtubers are paid to review products but small companies like Pimax and that can’t even figure out their business model obviously can’t afford to pay them.
            I fell in love with VR in CTRL-V VR arcade which are compromised of rift S and vive pros mostly depending on the locations. I thought that if I made a jump into VR headsets I would buy the best out there. I took a risk to buy the 5k+ and it was well worth it. I can’t even put on a Rift S or Vive Pro headset anymore even with 2x SS.

          • Your response is actually quite dumb.

            Asked about about distortion and flat screen look and get a huge wall of text w/ 0.1% of it answering 1 part of my question and what does youtube have to do w/ users of the product rambling about distortion?

            Or did you reply to the wrong post?

          • wow

            I answered it and it’s only on large mode where you see the distortion. I don’t use large mode I stay on small/normal depending on the game.

      • Immersive Computing

        Have a look at this, it shows maximum possible FOV (upper limit of what is rendered, not visible so it’s a little less as visible), it’s quite surprising but as index owners found its not 120-130 degree. https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/89d5ab8478716ade204dd5549004101ce9ec3cbc41dc4ec066c2924de889e118.png

        • wow

          But I am still right with my pimax claim. Thank for the proof :)
          P.s. I think you replied to the wrong person but it was for my benefit anyways

          • Immersive Computing

            Glad to assist. It’s good to have some data rather than just our perception. Different face gaskets, eye relief, craniofacial fit all affect visible FOV

            Using a wide face gasket means my index is display limited (I can see display edges at minimum eye relief)

            About 110 degree horizontal using the Real O Virtual’s steamVR test environment, but that is prone to inaccuracy.

    • GunnyNinja

      Wasting your money buying a new Odyssey. It’s also incredibly uncomfortable for a lot of people. Only 3 headsets count? Pimax, Quest, Rift S, Concept D Ojo. More out there than you think.

    • Charles

      Don’t forget, Odyssey+ has the best contrast and black levels – by far. I consider it the #1 best headset out today, and I’ve tried most of them.

      • You must love dark games to say that :)

        • Mike

          Most games have scenes that are dark. And you’d be surprised how much contrast the real world has even outdoors on a sunny day. Put a very large black object in a shadow and it’ll look pitch black, but on LCD it’ll look gray.

          • Andrew Jakobs

            Put very bright spots on the black object and you have awful ghosting, and a lot of games have dark backgrounds and bright spots…..

          • Jistuce

            This is why we need CRTs to come back. High contrast, high response time, low ghosting, and all it costs is a few pounds of glass, two particle cannons, and a high-voltage transformer strapped to our faces.

            Hmmm… maybe CRT has some downsides as well.

          • Immersive Computing

            What could possibly go wrong?

          • Zantetsu

            I know you’re just joking, but the pixel pitch of CRTs would have been terrible for VR. You think pentile AMOLED is bad? Wait until you see the subpixels of a CRT magnified 10x.

            Of course, you could just use full size CRTs, the headset would only weigh 200 lbs. I suppose at that point you might as well just switch to full sized LCD displays stuck on your head, would only weigh 80 lbs or so.

          • Jistuce

            Seriously, I don’t think the dot pitch is even the biggest concern. It’s gotta get in line behind weight and power consumption. Get a headset that’s comfortable to wear and can be powered easily before we even stop to consider image quality.

            That said, it is obvious why camcorders used monochrome CRTs in their viewfinders(much higher horizontal resolution, much lower power draw).

          • Mike

            Black smear happens in occasional scenarios with the full-blacks of the Odyssey+. But there is none with the limited-blacks of the Vive (which is still dramatically better than 600:1 LCD headsets). And there’s actually an easy workaround to fix the black smear on the Odyssey+:
            https://www.reddit.com/r/WindowsMR/comments/dlowpz/psa_odyssey_black_smear_has_been_eliminated_no/?st=k5bclb6j&sh=dbb2a765

    • Andrew Jakobs

      Oh dear, it’s the Odyssey+ messiah again… Why would you need to buy a new Odyssey+ every 5-6 months.. The Odyssey+ hasn’t had any revisions yet.. So it’s not really smart.. And you forget to mention the awful tracking of the Odyssey+, yes it’s bearable, but not great.. If they would sell an Odyssey+ that would have lighthouse tracking, and decent controllers, than it certainly would be a great headset.. BUT I’m looking forward to seeing what Samsung will produce next, but it’s awfully quiet..

  • mfx

    Who would buy that today ?? Obsolete yet overpriced. HTC really wasted their chances like they did with smartphones. Is it a few toxic staff that create this situation over and over or just bad luck ?

    • kuhpunkt

      Maybe people that can’t buy the Index yet, like in Australia and Norway… but still.

    • Anonymous

      I have worked at a Taiwanese IT company. Trust me, it is mostly the former of what you said :/

      They often excel at manufacturing but all likes to play game of chicken when coming to add bold features or specs during product designs.

    • JohnMcL7

      I’ve been considering it as an upgrade to an original Vive with the wireless addon, the Index doesn’t offer wireless VR and while the wireless kit does work with the Cosmos the tracking seems problematic on it. The Vive Pro seems a reasonable upgrade although it looks like it’s a straight dollar to pound conversion so it’s round $800 here, I’d be tempted if they had dropped it more.

      • mirak

        You should wait for HTC to release the Cosmos lighthouse mod.
        Maybe.

      • Then its back to ceiling cable management tools w/ the Index. Worth it for what it offers,

        • JohnMcL7

          That’s a big no from me, getting rid of the cable was the single biggest improvement to VR for me and couldn’t go back to it now.

          • The Index maybe the biggest improvement

      • Andrew Jakobs

        Except the vive pro kit as being sold isn’t wireless… it’ll add another 345 euro’s to the package..

    • 2 reasons:
      1. Wireless
      2. Business license

      Valve Index has not a clear business licensing, that’s why all arcades use Vive Pro and not Valve Index

      • Immersive Computing

        Past 2 years it was Vives and then Vive Pro at arcades, LBE venues, marketing events, VR festival. Seen 48 Vive Pro being used at one event here in London, then 12 Vive Pro Eye at another, easily the most popular choice for business users?

        https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/20b28cf8ba7fe0b472b810782887880965bb8d0924a383980fb04e7201539521.jpg

        • Ad

          It’s gross that those users have to use Vive wands.

          • Immersive Computing

            Nothing wrong with vive wand as simple input device for experiences, easy to pick up; wands are easy to understand and use making an intuitive “tool” especially for novices.

            But perhaps not the best choice for gaming – however, I still prefer wands to Index controllers for Beat Saber. My Index controllers in Beat Saber work best like this which probably isn’t what Valve envisaged.

            https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/7190ca523c3a6c4fde09ab15c20dd25b1a2cfaaf912adc285f892ac8f7ff68d6.jpg

          • Jistuce

            I’ve done that with my Oculus Touch controllers before. Some games you just really need to feel like you’re holding something.

          • Ad

            I think that was unavoidable but I actually like that grip better because they’re lighter. I rest my thumb against the top edge of the handle.

            Regardless, I hate the Vive wands and it’s insulting that people would be in enterprise applications and get Vive wands. They’re not intuitive, the only thing about them that is is the touchpad compared to a joystick for non gamers. But everything else, the grips, the bulk, the tracking puck, the weight, just makes VR feel like it’s five years behind where it is.

          • Jack Liddon

            Beat Saber needs a setting to adjust the blades for Index controllers!

        • Ad

          That doesn’t make it a better choice. Dell computers are in every office, doesn’t mean they’re actually good or a good value.

          • Immersive Computing

            No judgement here, just reporting what I’ve seen (and used) at different events.

          • Ad

            Sure but you know as well as I do that they’re getting Vives and Vive Pro’s for commercial logistical reasons, not quality. They have vive wands for goodness sakes.

      • You forgot no grey black screens

        Also Index was jus released last year while Pro been around for years.

        • Ad

          The clarity is a lot more important, very few people seriously think this has a better display for anything but intense horror games. And you could just buy an index by reserving one, it’s only right now that it’s totally sold out.

          • Better overall display outside blackscreens.

            Whats better? Odysee has display issues.

          • Ad

            Index and Reverb, on balance they’re the best.

      • Ad

        Hope Pimax gives HTC a run for its money.

        • Nelia

          After five years I chosen to discontinue my old work which changed my lifestyle… I commenced working at a task through internet, for a company I found on internet, for some hrs every day, and I receive much more than I has been doing on my old job… Very last payment I acquired was 9000 bucks… Stunning point about this is the fact I get more time for my family members. Test it yourself, what it is about… cut.sx/auP/

    • Charles

      I still consider it the second best headset after the Odyssey+, due to its OLED contrast and black levels. But extremely overpriced, given that the Odyssey+ is only $250 and I consider it better.

      • Ace of Spades

        Its not OLED.

        • Charles

          The Vive Pro and Odyssey+ are OLED. Look it up.

          • Ace of Spades

            Im sorry but they are not.
            AMOLED is cheap OLED derivative made especially for mobile phones to make them cheaper.
            Its not the right choice for VR, since it uses Pentile pixel arrangement and has “holes” between pixels and its responsible for screen door effect.
            For comparison a lower resolution but Native OLED PSVR has higher pixel density and higher per-sub pixel resolution then first gen VIVE and Rift since AMOLED has less subpixels vs OLED.
            Also the SDE on PSVR is almost non issue, its minuscule that most people dont even notice, on first gen vive and rift is actual serious issue that ruins enjoyment.
            Personally I waited until Rift S comes out with RGB screen to jump to PC VR, I can only hope for real OLED PC VR device, maybe next PSVR2 for PS5 will be PC compatible out of the box.

          • Mike

            Actually, AMOLED is a type of OLED, and it’s better than the other type (PMOLED). Most OLED TVs are AMOLED. Pentile is not intrinsic to AMOLED. But yes, the Vive Pro and Odyssey+ do use a Pentile subpixel arrangement.

            I’ve used the PSVR, and I definitely noticed the SDE. I’ve also owned a Pimax 5K+ (1440p RGB), and I also definitely noticed the SDE. In fact, at resolutions as low as 1440p, RGB actually has WORSE SDE than Pentile in some scenarios. The human eye evolved to easily detect straight lines, so the neatly-lined-up pixels of RBG stand out more than the broken diamond pattern of Pentile.

            But yes, RGB does have a bit more detail (from experience I’d say maybe 15% more detail at the same resolution).

            But in any case, every currently-available VR headset has its pros-and-cons. There is no headset that’s best in every spec. But I’ve tried most of them, and I’ve sworn off anything LCD. That leaves the Vive Pro and Odyssey+ clearly on top. Then, I prefer the SDE reduction on the Odyssey+, and the even-deeper black levels are nice too.

          • Ace of Spades

            You skipped over everything I wrote and run to type a replay?

            The first sentence says :

            AMOLED is cheap OLED derivative made especially for mobile phones to make them

            cheaper.

            PSVR has no SDE compared to Vive and Rift, its a fact, supported by science.

            Rift and Vive: 2 displays x 2 subpixels x 1080 x 1200 =

            5,184,000 subpixels

            PSVR: 1 display x 3 subpixels x 1920 x 1080 = 6,220,800 subpixels

            The Larger the distance between Pixels the worse SDE effect is, here is article on this very web site:

            https://www.roadtovr.com/whats-the-difference-between-screen-door-effect-sde-mura-aliasing-vr-headset/

            And here is another one about PSVR and why it has no SDE compared to RIft and VIVE

            https://www.vrheads.com/playstation-vr-why-theres-no-screen-door-effect

            Pentile structure is #1 reason for SDE, its another Fact, its like you first ever that you visited VR web site, here is another article:

            https://optocrypto.com/vr-image-bad-best-quality-psvr/

            PenTile needs much higher resolution than RGB for acceptable image quality [see my Pixel math above], but fails in image quality tests when compared to an RGB display of the same resolution.

            Magnification used in an HMD lenses only makes the PenTile visual artifacts much more of an annoyance than when used on a hand-held device.

            Even on the mobile phones, people noticed the Checkerboard effect created by Pentile pixel arrangement and hated it, here are some quotes from old article about mobile phones using AMOLED screen

            Even though the qHD display found on the DROID 3 is technically a higher resolution, this particular display shows more pixelation and grain than that of a standard resolution display (i.e.: EVO 4G, DROID X, Nexus S, etc.), thanks to the PenTile subpixel layout. …

            If you pay close attention to these displays, you will begin to see the checkerboarding effect in areas of high contrast or high saturation.

            Quote from Galaxy S3 review.

            PenTile displays are perceived as brighter than RGB screens, but many display purists consider them fuzzier and overall inferior to the classic RGB.

          • Mike

            “AMOLED is cheap OLED derivative made especially for mobile phones”
            I researched it, and that’s not true. AMOLED is the most common type of OLED, and is used in high-end OLED TVs:
            https://www.oled-info.com/amoled
            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMOLED

            Your first comment was “It’s not OLED”. But AMOLED is OLED.

            I’m not saying there aren’t advantages to RGB vs Pentile. It does shrink the SDE. But it also changes the pattern of the SDE to one that is more noticeable on low-detail, evenly-colored scenes, such as staring at the sky. And the Odyssey+ has a high enough resolution that when combined with its SDE-filter, the SDE looks the same as on the 2160p Reverb.

            Also, it doesn’t just depend on Pentile vs RGB at a given resolution – another factor is the pixel fill factor. PSVR has a high pixel fill factor, which gives it very little SDE (though it does have some, even according to the articles you linked).

          • Ace of Spades

            Its not the same AMOLED.

            AMOLED is also a name of the technological process, that can be anything, pentile, RGB, etc

            In this case, we are talking about commercially used names, see image below, AMOLED is used for PENTILE screens and Super AMOLED used for RGB AMOLED.

            Pentile AMOLED was made to make mobile phones cheaper, its old, cheap and trashy technology, it has no place in HMDs.

            Pixel Density is direct factor of RGB or Pentile, given identical resolutions of course.

            Pentile has larger gaps between subpixels, so of course it has lower pixel density, vs RGB panel of same resolution, or even RGB panel of tad lower resolution [see the math for PSVR vs HTC Vive/Rift]

            Osyssey+ also use the same old trashy Pentile AMOLED, Samsung just covered the pixel grid with a filter, it wont make the image look better, nothing beats native resolution, it just helps with SDE, a little bit.
            RGB panel of identical resolution will be superior in every way possible.

            https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/2748c16a54ccead3371b1a67453affc1766ae28364ce2c576bf3abd12bfad538.jpg

          • Mike

            Actually, that’s “Super AMOLED Plus” that specifically uses RGB. The non-Plus one is Pentile with built-in touch sensing.
            But that’s all just Samung’s terms.

            Yes, pixel density is affected by Pentile vs RGB. But it’s only one factor – the space between pixels can be designed to be bigger or smaller. That’s why the PSVR has barely-visible SDE at 1080p RGB, while the Pimax 5K+ has very-noticeable SDE at 1440p RGB.

            “Osyssey+ also use the same old trashy Pentile AMOLED”
            You should try it before you criticize it. Screen quality has many factors. Everything has pros-and-cons. Resolution and SDE matter, and so does contrast ratio. LCD-based VR headsets all have contrast ratios of around 600:1. According to display rating websites, anything under 6000:1 isn’t very good. Non-limited OLED (such as on the Odyssey+) has infinity:1 contrast. Contrast and black levels make a huge difference in immersion. The grey-blacks of 600:1 LCD make it feel more like looking at a cheap computer monitor than like being in a place.

          • Ace of Spades

            Why are you repeating what I said?

          • Bob Smith

            No, black levels are more important than SDE. You are stating a subjective opinion as if it were fact.

          • Mike

            Actually I’m 800 years old. When 800 years old you reach, look as good you will not.

            “Space between pixels is always the same size given Identical Resolution, Size and Technology used”
            Not true. Read up on “pixel fill factor”. It’s been a common topic of discussion in VR forums for many years.
            https://www.oculus.com/blog/details-on-new-display-for-developer-kits/

            “The difference between [LCD] and OLED is not that serious, and SDE is more important for immersion then black levels”
            I disagree, as do many people. I did a side-by-side comparison between a Vive Pro and a Pimax 5K+ – the difference was night-and-day (no pun intended).

          • Bob Smith

            Same Samsung panel in both. Owned Odyssey+ and it is a great value but prefer much greater FOV of Pimax 5k XR which is also OLED.

          • Jistuce

            OLED doesn’t describe a panel layout, merely a type of light source(an organic light-emitting diode). Active-matrix OLED STILL doesn’t actually describe an actual panel layout, merely the nature of the driving, with active-matrix meaning each pixel is individually addressable with no ghosting(if you remember passive-matrix LCDs in early-90s laptops, you understand why this matters).

            Samsung, however, uses the term AMOLED to mean PenTile displays exclusively(and I think they’re the only ones that use the term AMOLED, because everyone has largely forgotten that passive-matrix was ever a thing).

            PenTile is a Samsung trademark for “full-color displays that don’t have a full RGB triad for each individual pixel”, and I believe they own the patent on the technique as well. They also do it wrong by reducing both blue AND red resolution instead of just blue resolution. We see too much detail in red to get away with that.

            (The original implementations “simply” omitted half the blue, which can actually be done with little perceptual quality loss because the human eye has terrible blue resolution.)

          • Ace of Spades

            Thats exactly how you described, AMOLED is used as commercial term for pentile AMOLED displays and thats how I use it in this discussion and all others.
            Its a commercial trademark term so thats how it used.

            AMOLED used to describe a display its obvious they mean Pentile type.
            And for regualr RGB based AMOLED/OLED people just use OLED

            https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/2748c16a54ccead3371b1a67453affc1766ae28364ce2c576bf3abd12bfad538.jpg

          • Jistuce

            For RGB pixels, I think Samsung uses AMOLED+.
            Samsung’s naming scheme is as stupid as their current PenTile implementations.

          • Alex Luloh

            You’re out of your god damn mind. The PSVR looks like garbage and gives me a headache after 10 mins of use. It has the most pronounced screen door effect of any headset currently in circulation. Even Sony knows it’s crap. They stated last week there are no plans for VR support on PS5 now or in the near future.

          • Mike

            Hmm, no plans for VR support on PS5? What’s your source? I can’t find anything saying that.
            https://www.reddit.com/r/PSVR/search/?q=ps5&restrict_sr=on&t=week

      • Andrew Jakobs

        Well, the problem with the Odyssey+ is that it has an awfull tracking in comparison to the lighthouse system, and it’s a hard to come by headset if you’re not living in the states.. Here in the netherlands the Odyssey+ is FAAAAAAR from $250, it’s 500 euro’s (including tax/vat).

        • Charles

          The tracking actually is just as good as any other system, as long as you keep the controllers in front of you. But yes, outside the field of view of the cameras, the tracking is bad. But I consider it an acceptable trade-off – not really an issue after you get used to it.
          I didn’t know that about its availability outside the US. Not sure why that is, given it’s made by Samsung in South Korea.

    • Andrew Jakobs

      uhh, I bought a starterkit at black friday as it’s still a good pcvr headset. I explicitly wanted the starterkit due to it having the 1.0 lighthouses so I can pick up an older Vive for developing purposes (as a lot of people are selling their headset only due having bought an Index but keeping the 1.0 lighthouses), and even an Index. I can buy the 2.0 lighthouses another time if I want to.
      Having used it now, it really is a solid headset with great support.

    • NooYawker

      The OLED screens makes it the best when it comes to rich colors. But that’s about it. If they sold the whole kit for $600 then it would be worth it.

  • Ad

    Wow! Another bundle with a headset worse than the index, much worse controllers, and slightly worst base stations for basically the same price!

    They need to kill the whole Vive line and make a Rift S competitor with SteamVR tracking. And have something worth giving their enterprise customers.

  • one80oneday

    That’s a decent price cut and less than I paid for my OG Vive however I’ve since sold it and purchased a Quest

    • Andrew Jakobs

      Except your OG vive came with the lighthouse and controllers, this $600 is headset only, $900 is the set that is comparative to the OG vive set.

  • A good move, that device is becoming pretty old, even if it is the most used by all LBVR, thanks to the clear business licensing

    • mirak

      The only good move would have been to sell it for 70% of the Index Price.
      At least for non business users.

  • Ace of Spades

    HTC VIVE had insanely negative effect on the the RV industry, and its echoing to this day in 2020!

    The fact they made these dumb idiotic, moronic, unergonomic shovels they dare to call “controllers” made millions of people turn their noses away and game devs to invent idiotic movement systems, instead of just using thumb stick to walk.
    HTC as VR brand should be removed from the history of VR and forgotten , people that buy their products should be kicked in the balls for supporting such vile company that has negative effects on the industry.

    • Vive was the superior choice in 2016. Time to switch to the Index and save money by not buying the base stations.

      Superior choice indeed :3

      • Andrew Jakobs

        But you need the buy the base stations if you don’t have a vive already.. And a lot of games still don’t support the index controllers properly (read a lot of reviews on steam and you’ll see a lot of people with the knuckle controllers bitch about the game not working properly with those).

    • Andrew Jakobs

      I’m sorry you feel that way, but I still think the wands are decent controllers, yes not the best, but certainly not the worst…

      • Ace of Spades

        The shovels are unergonomic, they go against everything we learned from playing games in the last 20+ years.

        Any Gaming input device that lacks Thumb-Sticks is doomed to fail and goes against natural gamer instincts.
        Steam controller failed for the same reason, even thou it had one thumbstick.
        Touch pads are awkward, unnatural and lack tactile feel, gamers used Thumbsticks from N64 and PS1 era, its natural, easy to use and everyone knows what it is, when you pick up any gamepad with thumbsticks even if you never used one and its from new console, you naturally know what everything does.

        Oculus had great controller from day one, it was Gamer friendly, felt natural.

        The HTC shovels dont look like anything made for gaming, maybe beating someone on the head.

        • Andrew Jakobs

          Not really, to me they are actually pretty ergonomic for the use with VR (yes it can be better ofcourse) and to me the touch pads are certainly not awkward and definitly not unnatural. I’ve also used thumbsticks but I don’t really miss them on the wands, the only thing that is awkward is the scrolling function (in steam home with installed games, but that’s more the sensitivity).
          Oculus didn’t have a great controller from day one, they had the xbox controller from day one, it took about half a year after introduction of the CV1 before they released it as a separate bundle, and it took them more than 9 months later to actually ship them as the standard control, so 1.5 year after the initial release of the CV1..
          The only buttons on the wands that I don’t think are really correctly placed are the side buttons..

          And that’s the problem with controllers, so many people so many preferences.

          But sadly the touch controller doesn’t come in a lighthouse version, so the only other option for the vive is at the moment the knucklecontrollers (but they also have it’s problems)..

          • Ace of Spades

            Gamers used to the feeling of thumbsticks to control camera and for movement, its natural, its like Steering wheel in a car, you can replace it with triangle or stick, but thats not what people used to.
            Maybe someone that is not a gamer, maybe, but most people been holding these thumbstick gamepads since kindergarten.

            Personally ill take xbox gamepad over Vive shovels, for me its natural and its what i been using all my life since PS1.

            For the vive pad ill have to suffer, rethinking how to use new control methods, its a chore.
            What Oculus came with after, so what if it was late, it was superior to vive in every way possible, to this day its amazing and the new Oculus S ones even better, of course as gamer i would ask to have my face button on one side and maybe extra buttons on the otehr, not split like it is now 2 on each side, but thats it

          • Andrew Jakobs

            the xbox gamepad is awful for roomscale VR.. Don’t know what type of games you do in VR, but for me the wands are more natural then a xbox gamepad. I don’t have any problems with thinking how to use the wands in VR (unless the developer really fubarred it). I’m not saying the wands are the best controls, far from it, but to say they are really awful and unergonomic is just bullshit. Most people I know have no problems when they get the wands in their hands and go right ahead with the experience/game. Maybe it’s just you that is too fixated… And as I said, if you have the lighthouse tracking system, you don’t have much choice, there are no touchcontrollers for lighthouse (certainly wouldn’t mind, and I even think it’s weird that no company has just copied the touch controllers (like WMR has done with it’s standard controllers) and just replaced the IR leds with the lighthouse receptors..

            As I said earlier, different people different tastes… And because people have grown up with thumbsticks doesn’t make thumbsticks the best controllers..

          • Ace of Spades

            What are you taking about?
            No one wants them.
            Steam Gamepad failed and was canceled, and it used same tracking pads and same underlying technology.
            HTC VIVE Cosmos Controller is Copy of Oculus Touch and thats what they will be doing forward in the future.
            Right now on their web site teh shovels called 2018 Controller, should be a big sign that its OVER, it was huge mistake and they wont be repeating it.
            VALVE Index out of the box went for Thumbsticks.

            If people loved them so much like you said then why its not a success and why no one copies them? Why HTC Abandoned them and moved to normal Humane style?

            Because its trash and no one except die hard HTC fanbois likes them.
            Hell, even PSVR dildos were better, at least they had ergonomic style :)

            You can get the Index controller, but if you dont have a choose, then its DIFFERENT topic, you stuck.

            Sell the HTC and move to inside out tracking, IMO its game changer.

            Someone made a joystick add-on for HTS controllers
            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QF6VNOY1yYg

          • Andrew Jakobs

            You really need to take your head out of your ass…. I never said people LOVED them, I just said they are decent controllers. Again, when I see people using them that have never used them before I don’t see them having any problems with using them.. Maybe it’s just your closeminded view that keeps you from understanding how to use them..
            And because HTC also went with the touchdesign probably had more to do with the inside out tracking and them having to quickly put out the Cosmos, as it’s clear that was also just a rushjob.

            As long as inside out tracking can’t track controllers behind your back, it’s just utter crap…

            The PSVR move controllers don’t even have a thumbstick or movement keys at all, that’s why the PS3 had the navigator to use in conjunction with the move controller (I own them too).

            I think you’re just overreacting.

          • Ace of Spades

            They could use the touch pads even on the new controllers but they didn’t.
            People might be bale to use them, because they simple, two sticks and 2 tocuhpads, but playing something like skyrim or shooter with them its hell, they look like Business pointing devices for presentations.

            The issue with shovels is 2 way:
            1)Touch pads, overwhelming majority hates them its a fact, no need to deny it, no one wants such products for games.
            2) Their ungamer style, they just two spoons, or shovels, its ungamery, look how most gamepads made, they have the same feel in the hand, round, smooth.
            3) Lack of buttons

            I dont need to track my gamepads behind my back, its completely non issue blown up by people that stuck in the past.

            I never played any games where i need to put my hand behind my back, in some rare games where you need to do some motion like that they work fine, in any case its about how they make the games, there is no real need for a game to have such motion, it can be avoided.

            I also had PSVR the wants are at least round, they sit naturally in the hand, they feel like gamepads.

            There is no pint in this discussion, we are not proving anything to each otehr, ill stay with my opinion and you with yours.
            Thats why I got the RIft S, gamepad and is more important to me then resolution or graphical quality, because if you have even native 4K with Pimax but gamepad is complete poo, i wont have fun, i wont even play, ill get angry and throw it out of the window.
            And the less cables the better of course, I dont want any sensors, i dont want to drill anything, to pull cables.
            Cant wait for when they finally adopt that Nvidia USB-C port that I use for mobile phone charging, Single USB-C cable for power and video and everything else is good, less cables, more fun.

          • Andrew Jakobs

            Maybe you don’t have to track your gamepad behind your back, but I play shooters and I do shoot behind my back, and for shooters the wands are great.

            Also I don’t actually feel much different between holding the move controller of the wand. And with the move controller I had them mostly in the sharpshooter/handgunholder anyway.

            I agree with you that needing the extra cables is a drag, but they also need to put some extra camera’s on the back of the headset OR have the controllers themselves have independent tracking (that would even be much better, as I think the headset and controllers shouldn’t be dependent on each other like it is now with the WMR/Cosmos/Rift S/Quest/etc..

          • Ace of Spades

            I dont know about you, when I was 18 i was conscripted to the army for 3 years, I never had to shoot with my hands behind my back.
            Rift S controllers have build in tracking, its not as precise as with cameras, but if you need to shoot an arrow its enough

          • Andrew Jakobs

            Don’t know about you, but I do play shooter games and there I look and shoot one way while with a second weapon I should behind me, I can actually do that..

          • Zantetsu

            My best VR gaming experience was Fallout 4 VR played with a Vive Pro and wands. Maybe it would have been slightly better with different controllers, but the wands did not limit my enjoyment of the game.

            You don’t like the wands; fair enough. But your hyperbole is extreme and annoying.

          • Ace of Spades

            Thats because you had no alternative, people enjoy using PSVR gamepads too and it sold the most, but we all know that they suck and unusable [meaning you need to learn everything anew], I had both PSVR models, first and second gen with HDR pass-trough, I also had some fun [Had more fun with the psaim, wish we get something like this for PC] but i had no otehr alternative, on PC we have.

            There is no point defend them, the fact they canceled them and steam canceled their touch gamepads, proves everything.

            P.S. If you didn’t get it:
            #1 issue is the touch pads instead of sticks

            #2 issue lack of classical button arrangement
            and only #3 issue their build/looks

          • Zantetsu

            The fact that I did not have an alternative does not imply that the wands sucked or suck. They were adequate and did not hinder my great gaming experience.

            Nobody is ‘defending’ them. I’m just defending logic and sanity. You can’t say they were terrible, because they weren’t. They were adequate. We can all be happy that newer and better alternatives are becoming available.

            For what it’s worth, I have Valve Index controllers now and to be honest, I don’t like them much. I have not used them a whole lot, and so my opinion may change, but my limited experience shows that having controllers clamped to your hands actually feels like having controllers clamped to your hands, not like ‘nothing that suddenly appears to be an object when you grasp it’. And the button and stick placement are awkward.

            I very well may get used to these issues and come to like them. But I am no more going to say that the Index controllers suck because I don’t like them at first than I am going to say that Vive controllers sucked because they were no better than adequate first gen controllers.

          • Ace of Spades

            Maybe you used to vive controllers and thats why you dont like the index ones.
            The RiftS controllers, felt natural from first touch, they basically feel like regualr gamepad that was cut in half, a big plus, no need to re-learn anything

          • Zantetsu

            I agree, I have used Rift S controllers and they felt great right away. I am reserving ultimate judgement on the Index controllers until I have used them more (one had a defective button out of the gate and I had to send it back so I have been unable to use them since shortly after getting them).

          • Ace of Spades

            Another user here said he had to replace his index gamepads more then twice, apparently valve has some manufacturing issues and its known, if you google youll find complaints.
            Can you just hold them like regualr gamepads without that rubber band? Just Hold them naturally?

        • Immersive Computing

          I’ve had a great time trying out many different controllers, favourite were Oculus Touch CV1and Xbox controller both designed by legendary “Carbon”.

          I prefer Touch to my Index controllers and Touch didn’t keep failing; waiting for a replacement left controller which will be number 9 since launch (5 left, 4 right), it’s getting tiresome.

          Would pay good money for a Touch clone with Triad Semiconductor diodes and board for steamVR tracking… anyone looking for a Kickstarter project?

          https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/2192c19a8a78c591bda0e124abab1f7eb8c2f8b38b62073b87c4b82e0b7bea2b.png

          • Ace of Spades

            Is there some technical issues with Index controllers?

            I hope PSVR2 for PS5 will have something that less looks like old dildos but more of what Oculus has, the PSVR gun is ok, but of course for next gen they said no more old type camera controls so they will have to re-do it

          • Immersive Computing

            There have been several issues mainly the joysticks and triggers. They had to use an undersized joystick as it shares real estate with the oval touchpad; in my experience the sticks quickly degrade start drifting or develop free wobble. Or this… https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/20bf2cc2bb8c4541f89a109424b8b7f5c3579dcdd8f64d23449b091add95abf7.jpg

        • G-man

          trackpads are actualy a far better input method than thumbsticks for a whole bunch of controls. aiming with a thumbstic is terrible. its just people got used to it and put up with how limiting it is. its why you dont have rts games on consoles. if people learnt how to use the steam controlle rit would be the perfect console controller. but people decided they didnt like it before bothering to learn how to use it.

  • Lulu Vi Britannia

    I got the chance to try it in an arcade this week-end. The headset is terrific! I was really impressed with the resolution (yes, I’m still a gen 1 user, lol), and it was extremely comfortable to wear (there was some weight in the back, I don’t know if it was an add-on or if it’s originally on it, but it was perfect!).

    However, the controllers are still awful, and 600$ for the headset only is a fucking insult. I stick to Oculus, with their perfect controllers and their awesome software features (Dash, Desktop, multiple virtual screens, exclusive games, …).

  • Kimberle McDonald

    Why would anyone buy HTC’s overpriced products is beyond me. They treat them as a money grab. Oh boy, they added 100 more pixels per eye for only 800 bucks, gee that’s great /s