The Oculus Touch motion-tracked controllers have launched today after 8 months of the Rift solely supporting gamepad experiences. I wanted to take a moment to dig into some of the more subtle technical nuances when comparing the Oculus Rift & Touch with the HTC Vive, but also some of the larger VR ecosystem considerations to take into account. So today’s episode of the Voices of VR podcast is an op-ed analysis comparing the Touch controller and room-scale tracking technologies, as well as the overall content and developer ecosystems.

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In terms of industrial design and ergonomics, I do prefer the Rift headset over the Vive. There has also been a lot of praise for the ergonomics of the Touch controllers, and I do agree that they a lot more comfortable than the Vive’s lighthouse wands. However, Oculus’ camera-based tracking system was not optimized to support roomscale VR experiences of the same size of the Vive, and TESTED has confirmed that a diagonally-configured, two-camera Oculus sensor setup is not as robust as the Vive’s Lighthouse beacons.

Oculus’ tracking system is mainly optimized for “standing” VR experiences that are specifically designed for their front-facing cameras. Robert McGregor has argued that Oculus wasn’t prepared for room-scale VR when they launched the Rift CV1, and that they had made a strategic bet that most people would be playing VR games sitting down in front of their computer. This strategic bet has hampered Oculus with their decision to go with shorter cables for both the Rift headset as well as their tracking sensors. These work great for forward-facing or standing 360 experiences on your desktop, but the cord management logistics and camera-based tracking volumes are highly suboptimal for achieving a robust roomscale experience.

SEE ALSO
Oculus Touch Review: Reach into Rift

This thread on the Oculus subreddit discusses more of the technical differences in tracking capabilities between the two systems. I think it’s important to remember in comparing the Rift with the Vive that a lot of the Touch launch content has been specifically optimized for front-facing and standing 360 experiences. I’ve had multiple developers tell me that Oculus has had developers change their experiences to avoid limitations in their tracking solutions such as picking things up off of the floor because the Touch can easily lose tracking when you reach for the ground. So to really push the limits of Oculus’ room-scale capabilities it should be compared to a variety of Vive room-scale games from Steam that allow for an equal comparison.

This is possible because Valve decided to take an open development philosophy in having their SteamVR SDK support both the HTC Vive and Oculus Rift hardware. This means that most games bought on SteamVR will have automatic support for the Rift, but that same game bought on Oculus Home won’t support being able to play it on the Vive (unless the game is adaptable with some unofficial hacks). The important point is that SteamVR’s support for Rift games enables people to test the same game on both platforms.

I unfortunately ran into a number of technical issues with my Oculus Touch set-up that prevented me from testing the limits of Oculus’ camera-based tracking, and so I’m going to have to reserve my final judgment on this matter; Road to VR published a video showing the extents of the two sensor front-facing Touch setup and their own review of Touch. But I think it’s important to remember some of these VR design nuances and limitations when comparing the two systems.

The Oculus Touch controllers do have more buttons that are available for gameplay and professional applications than on the initial Vive controllers. This means that the Oculus gaming content has easier access to these buttons for abstracted expressions of your will. A lot of the VR games on the Vive have avoided this level of button abstraction, and I believe that there’s a tradeoff in different levels of presence that these buttons can cultivate. The Vive focuses you more on embodied presence while the Oculus has a bit more capabilities for an abstracted, active presence.

It’ll be interesting to see in the long-run whether this abstraction advantage enables more rich gameplay on the Oculus platform or if players prefer the types of experiences that minimize the abstractions and maximize the number of intuitive movements. Having user interfaces with complicated button manipulation combinations could limit VR’s reach beyond gamers, and so it’s a risk if VR developers create experiences with too high of a learning curve. But having access to more buttons could also enable richer gameplay mechanics for some VR games.

The other big point that I wanted to make is that Valve opened up royalty-free Lighthouse tracking back in August, and so I expect to see a lot of new lighthouse peripherals launching at CES. There was not a similar announcement from Oculus at Oculus Connect 3, which solidifies my impression that the Vive is actively cultivating an open ecosystem while Oculus is going down a more closed, ‘walled garden’ route. They’re focusing more on vertically-integrated solutions with a highly-curated selection of exclusive games, which prioritizes the benefits to the end-consumer rather than supporting a diverse developer ecosystem. It’s enabled Oculus to launch with a robust line-up of games, but time will tell as to which ecosystem the VR developers will be investing their time in supporting in the future. For some developers, a minimum viable product is going to be to launch their game via Steam for the Vive as a first-class platform with Rift support as an automated afterthought.

At the moment owning an Oculus Rift headset with Touch arguably gives you access to more content if you include their exclusive content as well as the Vive content that’s automatically supported on Steam. However, there may be potential limitations of Oculus’ tracking technology in viably supporting some of the full room-scale experiences, which may hamper some people’s experiences of that Vive content. It’s also unclear as to whether or not Rift users will be able to fully utilize the new Lighthouse peripherals that are expected to launch next year.

From a VR design perspective, I believe that Oculus’ decision to wait eight months to launch Touch controllers as well as not natively supporting room-scale experiences has fractured the VR developer ecosystem into three distinct groups: Sit-down gamepad VR, Front-facing, and full roomscale VR. The lack of tracking parity between the Rift and the Vive has a created complicated and fractured ecosystem for VR developers to navigate since there are so many tradeoffs depending on which group is targeted.

SEE ALSO
Oculus: Touch is "Fully Capable" of Roomscale Tracking, But Skeptical It's "Absolutely Necessary for VR"

While there is a lot of press consensus that the Oculus hardware with the Rift headset and Touch controllers enjoy an ergonomic advantage at the moment, I personally have deeper concerns about Oculus’ inferior tracking technology, the fractured ecosystem that’s being propagated through not making roomscale a first-class citizen, and a number of private developer frustrations with Oculus’ closed mindset. These are larger issues that make it more difficult for VR developers to easily support both hardware platforms, and ensure a healthy ecosystem of content development.

In the end, mainstream VR has a higher chance of success if VR developers can financially survive, and that the quality bar for content is high enough for consumers justify the time and money invested. Time will tell how the story plays out, but right now the Touch launch is a significant day for Rift consumers who have been waiting to fully step into the game since that promise was made in the original Oculus Kickstarter back in 2012.


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  • Sponge Bob

    “…other big point that I wanted to make is that Valve opened up royalty-free Lighthouse tracking back in August, and so I expect to see a lot of new lighthouse peripherals launching at CES”

    BUT they still wont allow third parties to manufacture lighthouse basestations

    Correct ?

    the tracked objects are dime a dozen – just any object with ir diodes attached plus some wireless communication channel to headset

    • benz145

      Correct, but they said they plan to open up the base stations at some point too. There’s no consumer-available third-party Lighthouse devices yet, so I’m not sure what you mean when you say they’re a dime a dozen.

  • Get Schwifty!

    As this is an Op-Ed piece and not a true comparison article, I’ll put my 0.02 in. Tracking is not equal but the differences in real-use are vastly overstated and I suspect people will happily use the Oculus + Touch setup and this argument will continue to lose ground over the next six months as people post videos showing use and relay real experiences. If tracking was actually poor they wouldn’t have released it and all the reviewers would be complaining vociferously instead of vague comments exaggerating the difference. Lighthouse has issues too and people sometimes get occlusion with it but its rarely pointed out in comparisons. To date I’ve only seen one true comparison of occlusion events, and basically over a days use the Rift+Touch was only slightly worse.than Vive and almost always was due to the tighter design of the controller.

    Market “fracturing” and dev disenfranchisement are overblown IMHO. so is the over-emphasis on “room scale” experiences; easily 70% of the titles or more on Steam are front-facing, seated experiences but this also rarely mentioned. it amounts to moving around a couple extra steps in a space, that is about it, its not some vast difference in experience; both systems are quite limited in the fact you are tethered under any circumstance to a relatively short distance currently.

    If Oculus is really so bad for all these points, the market is the ultimate test, wherein people will either be happy with the product set or not. If its truly that hard for devs to handle they won’t develop for it and the Oculus platform will be reworked (FB isn’t going to let it die). If the fracturing-argument really holds much water, same thing but I will say I doubt it, instead I suspect that room-scale is not the bar, rather front-facing/seated will be the major market as Oculus believes.

    • user

      “easily 70% of the titles or more on Steam are front-facing, seated experiences”

      more important would be the market share of room-scale and front-facing. the number of games doesnt mean much.

      “If Oculus is really so bad for all these points, the market is the ultimate test”

      the market is hardly the ultimate test because people tend to choose camps and defend their choice irrationally. most users cannot compare both systems because they just dont have access to both.

      “If its truly that hard for devs to handle they won’t develop for it”

      it doesnt matter how robust the tracking is. if they can sell games on a less robust system then they will sell the game.

      • Get Schwifty!

        I agree that the raw number of games isn’t the best guide, but I would bet that a clear majority of games are front facing/seated over room scale. If you can supply these numbers I would love to see them. Otherwise, we have to assume that say the top 100 games sold on Valve for VR are more or less representative.

        The market IS the barometer of acceptance, whether or not users use both systems. The point is, if someone uses Oculus (or whatever), and is pleased enough they will accept it and continue to use it and stick with the brand. They don’t need to compare each system in hand to decide they like something well enough to use and that is all that matters. In effect, it’s “good enough”.

        I agree 100% with your last statement, as that is my point ;)

        • Ripvoid

          Everyone knows the ‘market is the barometer of acceptance.’ We also know that sometimes an inferior technology is adopted by the market. Thats why roomscale fans are concerned about Oculus’ attempts to marginalize roomscale.

          Fortunately, they appear to be failing. They have been forced to at least ‘experiment’ with roomscale. The early adopters and enthusiasts deserve the credit for keeping the pressure on Oculus.

          Don’t bother explaining to me ad nauseam about how constellation will be the superior technology someday in the future. When that day arrives I’m sure we will all be happy to adopt it but for now its roomscale and lighthouse.

          • Alexander Hogan

            Early adopters and enthusiasts deserve the credit? Give me a break man, I was walking around my room in the DK2 back when HTC was trying to figure out why they couldn’t fit in the smartphone market. Oculus isn’t the opponent of room scale, it just wasn’t part of their plan for 2016. Besides, even experiences designed for the Vive need to account for users with smaller playspaces; that’s been true the whole time.
            In [X] years we’ll have wireless headsets covered in computer vision cameras mapping our individual playspaces anyway.

          • Get Schwifty!

            Well put on all the points… particularly the last, and I think Oculus sees it this way as well. If so, Lighthouse would indeed be an interim technology (not that it bad in the role now).

          • ummm…

            valve gave a lot of tech to oculus. so that dk2 had a lot to do with valve. you just didn’t know.

          • Alexander Hogan

            Are you trolling me right now man? You could spin me up pretty good if you were less obvious about it.

          • ummm…

            can you tell me why im wrong. i had heard much about palmer being invited to work at steamworks early in his development, and the myriad of things he borrowed. i dont mind being corrected. can you show me why i should believe otherwise?

          • Alexander Hogan

            I’ll reply to your various responses in one go: Oculus can call their tracking system “Constellation” but it’s basically off the shelf technology that’s been around for ages. Maybe Lucky like, physically took some IR diodes from Valve? I dunno. Anyway there’s no war between lighthouse and constellation because oculus will drop constellation the second whatever they’re currently developing is shiny enough for the public.
            And real fast: TPcast works with oculus; Oculus has hardware IPD correction; Oculus does track height. Leaving that many factual errors in your replies makes it look like you’re trolling.

          • ummm…

            tpcast works with oculus? thats cool. can you link me id like to see.

            how do you do the ipd correction and distance correction on the rift?

            what do you mean by oculus tracks height?

            we can go down the list of differences. we can look at the dev strategy/history/pricing of both FB and Valve. I dont think that would illuminate anything for you, even if the facts begged it to. I’m not here to bash rift. it just isn’t as full a package. majority isn’t always right. however, the majority of people invested as a consumer to developers have a general opinion; vive is it.

          • Alexander Hogan

            Hey man, you’re the one who came at me about Palmer personally copying Valve’s ideas or whatever the fuck. I guess Valve’s pretty great pal.

          • ummm…

            i just did a quick search and found this https://medium.com/@kixhax/palmer-luckey-started-a-revolution-but-did-he-329f8bc86ff0#.1ik07tnny

            im not sure of this site, but the story and the history was written about across the tech landscape when it broke in the spring/summer. Its not me making stuff up. There are PICTURES of him in the valve room. I believe he has spoke about it.

            valve is great. they have an interest in vr succeeding. They threw a lot of money and time to make the best product, not the one that they can monetize the best. They were brave and had courage – a grand view. FB much less so. be well man. i dont care what you do anyway. enjoy your rift.

          • ummm…

            also, man, you didnt answer the questions yourself that you bludgeoned me with. nice deflection.

          • Alexander Hogan

            Yeah you are pretty passionate about your camp, so I’m just gonna walk away from this one.

          • ummm…

            thats fine. i wasn’t aware i was the only one being snarky. too bad we never really got to debate the facts. enjoy the rift.

          • yag

            You know you can block users with disqus ?
            Some fanboys are the cancer of VR (especially Vive fanboys, it seems…)

          • ummm…

            we have wireless now through the vive. tpcast. a couple of weeks. PAY ATTENTION.

          • Get Schwifty!

            LOL how are they “failing”? They aren’t attempting to marginalize it, they are simply stating they don’t believe the market is focused on it. Hell, I suspect more than a few Vive owners don’t really use “room-scale” and play front facing 80% of the time at least.

          • Ripvoid

            The market is being created right now by the companies involved and naturally Oculus is putting their billions into creating demand for their less innovative technology. You can’t blame them for doing it but you can blame the idiot fanboys that hype it for them (nothing personal Schwifty.)

          • Get Schwifty!

            Not sure how I am hyping it… I’m pretty honest about the tracking differences, mistakes made in releases, schedules, etc. The difference is I still don’t believe room-scale is the deciding factor except for a smaller number of users, the majority of which have already bought in.

            What I am starting to (finally) grasp is their seems to be an intense fear that with mostly Vive enthusiasts that somehow Oculus will takeover the market and somehow destroy the idea of room-scale play, either by not devoting themselves to it or to encouraging development in room-scale. I think is a mistaken view; HTC is leading the way with room-scale, and that is great. If, and if they penetrate the market, and the market demands room scale, its a non-issue. If OTOH, and this is where the fear apparently comes in, Oculus not only succeeds in the market, but becomes dominant, room-scale will be starved out. I don’t buy this because I think the two systems are so close ultimately in practice that the market is not going to be owned by either. In addition to Rift and Vive, we have PSVR and other VR players penetrating the market, including mobile, and all of them will succeed as the market demands in their respective niches of VR, ie mobile, seated/standing, rug-scale, room scale, and even warehouse and full open. No vendor is going to run the show entirely, its a sea of players. I do believe that at a pivotal point room scale if is truly in demand will cause Oculus to fully commit to it, and I suspect in V2 room scale will no longer be referred to as “experimental” and quite likely an improved Constellation (and who knows, maybe they will go the Lighthouse route even) will emerge.

            In the end, the room scale fear is unfounded, the development for it if the demand is there will occur and no one will lose their favorite toy :)

          • ummm…

            if you bought the touch, then you are demonstrating the opposite of your opinion. why have it at all?

          • ummm…

            exactly again! you are on a role. im all for the rift; i just dont want to be lied to and have the vr trajectory be affected by it.

          • ✨EnkrowX✨

            My brother has a Vive; he never uses it. He doesn’t have the space for roomscale, and he finds that it requires too much setup hassle to just play seated games.

            We’ve tried roomscale at other peoples houses, and at the end of the day the experience wasn’t so much better than seated Rift that he would even feel like trying to set up roomscale for his Vive. In fact, he kinda wishes that he had a Rift, because the only games he wants to play are on the Oculus store, not Steam.

          • ummm…

            he should just get trackIR and duct tape his monitor to his forehead then.

          • ✨EnkrowX✨

            Why? You won’t get VR presence with a screen literally taped to your forehead.

          • ummm…

            you are right. they need some lenses and a casing – oh wait, thats the rift without room scale – and the vive to for that matter.

          • ✨EnkrowX✨

            So are you just saying that you don’t think VR is VR if it doesn’t have the roomscale gimmick?

          • ummm…

            well no no no no not at all. what im saying is that VR differentiation and potential comes mostly from roomscale or standing experiences – but much more so roomscale than standing. those that say VR is strongest in its seated experience pretend as if all vr is a cockpit shooter.

            this isn’t about vive vs rift. this is about the visions for VR. It is so mean and uninspired for us to think seated is the strength. anybody that has tried vr knows that isn’t true. thats why oculus has demoed touch at the conventions and has not had just people sitting playing cockpit games.

          • ✨EnkrowX✨

            I’m just saying, it’s all VR regardless of whether or not it’s roomscale, standing, or seated.
            VR can be a lot of things- we shouldn’t just limit it to roomscale experiences.

            One of the many reasons Oculus demos touch at conventions is that the kinds of cockpit games that have great VR like Elite Dangerous are quite niche, and therefore unfit for a booth aimed at attracting a wider audience.
            The touch controllers have that wider appeal, and will provide a more impressive demo experience for the average person, especially considering that the cockpit game would likely be played with an xbox controller rather than dedicated sim controllers.

            That being said, I still have yet to try a single Vive game which could convince me that roomscale is any kind of strength for anything aside from a 20 minute tech demo. What game(s) sold you on roomscale?

          • ummm…

            this isn’t just about theory or application. it is about both. my opinion is that htc wins on both ends. you feel otherwise. you opinion is counter to most people paying attention.

          • Paulo Martel

            First of all, I think you are asking the wrong question. Room scale does not need selling. True VR needs to be room scale… actually it needs to be much more (there is a lot of very active research on how to achieve more). Because VR is not just about having a new, more immersive way to play your old computer games. VR is about experience virtual worlds as if you were there. Let me be clear: I don’t want to make this a Oculus vs. Vive debate, that’s not my point at all. What I don’t like to see people, for various reasons, trying to scale down the VR experience to a seated thing. It _can_ be seated, be that just a particular set, the same way that your life experiences are much more than sitting!
            This being said, here are some games that I thought were amazing in room scale:
            – Eleven: Table Tennis VR. An absolute winner, everybody loves it
            – The Gallery – Call of the Starseed – an adventure game were you walk around, explore, crawl under tables, etc…
            – Raw Data – A fast-action FPS where you can walk around, dodge, hide behind objects, etc… ,
            – The Gleam – an escape the room game, where your playing area matches the room you are in.
            – The Thrill of the Fight – boxing game, makes you break a sweat in 5 minutes.
            – Tilt Brush – drawing/sculpting application
            – Pool Nation VR – it’s nice to walk around the table to go for the best shooting angle.

          • ✨EnkrowX✨

            I just think it’s absurd to claim that the only “true VR” is roomscale. Ideally, for stuff where you are doing something as a person in VR without operating any kind of vehicles, I’d think an omnidirectional treadmill of some sort would work better, as you wouldn’t run into a wall.

            However, as you said, that’s just one way to experience VR, and so are seated/standing experiences as well. Because there’s so many ways to experience virtual worlds, I don’t think there’s any “true VR”, there’s just different kinds of VR, and that’s swell. It’s not that I think nobody should have roomscale, I just don’t understand why I should want it, and why it’s so hyped up.

            I haven’t tried any of those games, but here’s a list of Vive games my friends had me try that had me walking away unimpressed and unsold on roomscale:
            -Vanishing Realms
            -The Brookhaven Experiment
            -Onward
            -The Art of Fight
            -Spellfighter VR
            -Hotdogs, Horseshoes and Hand Grenades
            -Budget Cuts Demo
            -Hoverjunkers

          • Paulo Martel

            Well, treadmills are certainly an interesting alternative to room scale that will work much better in some cases but won’t work at all in others. In any case, treadmills have nothing to do with sitting, they are just one of many ways to explore VR beyond the very restrictive seated experience. I do hope that all the main players in VR support treadmills and any other means of expanding your experience towards full immersion.

          • ✨EnkrowX✨

            That will not have the same experience as a VR HMD.

          • ummm…

            well you know i wasn’t completely serious. i was making a rhetorical point. the rift is certainly more than tape and a monitor – it has a casing. lol jp.

          • Paulo Martel

            Well, I have a Vive, and use it all the same. My room scale is a bit above the minimum recommended space, but it works very well. I have dozens of people coming over to my place, both gamers and no non-games, and they all absolutely love the room space possibilities, particularly in games like Eleven: table tennis where you are very, very close to the real experience. The point is that room scale experiences are an entire new thing, they afford possibilities never seen before. Room scale is not a replacement for seated computer games, the same way that playing football with your pals is not a replacement to playing Half-Life. You’ll have many people playing now that would not sit in front of a computer screen. It’s just not the same, this is an experience made to go far beyond the usual gaming crowd (of course gamers and enthusiasts are a need kickstart!).

          • ✨EnkrowX✨

            Yeah, roomscale is a certain type of VR. Same with seated and standing. VR can, and should, come in many forms.

            My issue is when people claim that VR without roomscale is not “true VR”. It’s all VR, just different versions of it. It’s just close minded to think that VR should only be one way.

          • Paulo Martel

            You still don’t get it. Reality is more than room scale, and certainly much more than being seated. What we are discussing here is not the relative merits of different systems, or the relative tastes of gamers and non-gamers. In “real reality”, being seated is part of being in a space, and that space is generally much larger than one’s living room. What VR aims at is to create experiences that feel real, and being seated is nothing but a very small part of all the experiences you must be able to have in VR. Room scale does, _by_definition_, include seated playing – you just need to seat somewhere within your playing space. So room scale is always better, because is more encompassing and closer to real life experiences, where you stand, walk, run, jump and seat when you want to! Room scale is the goal of VR. Just because many of us won’t be able to experience it properly in their homes (for the time being), doesn’t make it less so. That would be like saying tennis courts don’t matter much because only rich people can have one in their houses! (There will be VR arcades and many other places where you will be able to experience VR in large playing spaces).

          • ✨EnkrowX✨

            I’d say it’s more like saying “tennis courts don’t matter to me because I don’t see why they should.”.
            If physically walking isn’t part of a game, roomscale isn’t needed. So if those games don’t need roomscale, and a person just plays those games, why should they want roomscale?

            Furthermore, you aren’t going to be able to create a usable playspace that can seamlessly transition from a good cockpit experience to a roomscale walking experience without getting out of VR.

            Additionally, in my time using the Vive, I found that standing games that used the touch pad as an analog stick for movement ended up having much more interesting gameplay than teleporting offered.

          • ummm…

            look at the big games on vive. they aren’t front facing only. i admit that many people are lazy to turn around because of teleporation and the cables, but we are about to get wireless in a couple of weeks and the omni treadmill. not perfect solutions yet, but those solutions WILL be a while off. right now roomscale is vr, not a 180 degree attempt.

          • mm

            Man you are soooooo wrong that it’s funny. I own a Vive since Black Friday and all I play is room scale. I’m literally NEVER playing front facing anything. Only front facing game I play is SubNautica. Why can;t you just accept that the Oculus was never made to do roomscale properly. Maybe next year.

          • mm

            If you own an Oculus just sell it and get a Vive if you want room scale. You can’t even pick things up off the ground or turn around on the Oculus touch. Well maybe if you have USB’s running everywhere and 2 extra cameras. lol

          • Mike Handles

            I want to play Subnautica VR so bad its kept me up at night haha

          • ummm…

            thank you for being so concise and articulate. your rationalization should be included with all rebuttals.

        • user

          “The market IS the barometer of acceptance,”

          acceptance doesnt mean that something is better or not worse. people accept capitalism even though hundreds of millions live in slums.
          and yes, i know that those two things cant be compared on so many levels.

          • Get Schwifty!

            Didn’t say it was better or worse, only “good enough” for use.

    • Mike McLin

      When you say 70% are front facing/seated, you should really remove the word seated from that comment. I would say most are either front facing or full room scale, and the number of seated experiences on the Vive are much smaller. Also, almost every (or maybe every) front facing experience on the Vive uses the whole play area, and is essentially room scale. So when you say front facing and room scale, to me, in the context of the Vive, they are basically the same thing. Let’s just say, up to date, my front facing Rift experiences and front facing Vive experiences are not similar.

      Roomscale is the bar, I think. It’s obvious whenever you demo these experiences to people. Whether you have a small play area or large play area, you are going to want to move around in the majority of your experiences. In experiences where you don’t need to move and can simply use the controller to move you, I find the preference is always to just take a few steps to position yourself naturally. Even if you aren’t doing roomscale all of the time, you will be doing it and you need a system that does it well. Also, it is the feature that best justifies the large expense to consumers.

      • Get Schwifty!

        i could see that distinction, but it still proves my point.

        I disagree that room scale must be “the bar”, outside of well, being the bar for room-scale experiences ;) Don’t get me wrong, I like the idea, but I also believe Oculus is correct that a majority of the market is not hyped on room scale because frankly they are not that serious about it yet. In time, possibly so, at a point where VR is ubiquitous and people actually plan for it.

        • Mike McLin

          I am not sure how your point was proven. The majority of the market is hyped on room scale. Especially when both experiences have been demo’d for them. I’m not going to say what Oculus believes or speak on their behalf, because well I don’t work for them. But what did you expect them to say for the past 6 months? Room scale is awesome? Go buy a Vive? It seems like you have had a very skewed experience in VR. I feel like if you’d have owned a Vive for the past 6 months, you’d be singing a different tune. I’ve had several of my friends describe my Rift as “half VR”, after I show them the Vive. I would imagine that most people that own both headsets would probably have had the same reactions up until this point.

          • Get Schwifty!

            By what measure? You are going off what you read here and in other VR-enthusiast forums…. what amounts to maybe 400K devs, industry folks, and early adopters on the Internet.

            The general public who at this stage knows little if anything about Rift or Vive is not going to go “Oh goody, lets clear that extra bedroom out for VR” when they become aware of room scale, at least I don’t believe they will nor do I think the market research shows that.

          • Mike McLin

            You have not said the words “general public” until now. You’ve been saying the “market”. VR is so far away from mainstream adoption. It definitely won’t happen during this product cycle (and probably not even the next headset cycle).

            And please don’t act like I’m going off of other people’s opinions, or what I’ve read. I’ve clearly stated that I am going off of my own experiences, by owning both headsets and demoing them for friends. You seem to be the one that has a lack of experience with a variety of hardware. You’ve defended Oculus Touch room scale against the Vive’s light boxes in several articles. How much time have you logged doing room scale with the Rift? I didn’t jump into this thread to do a Vive vs Rift argument. My disagreement is that you fail to acknowledge that roomscale is the new VR. You disregard roomscale as a niche feature, when it is the main attraction. Whenever next gen wireless headsets come out, it’ll be even that much more drastically obvious that room scale is the new VR. It’s what anybody that has experienced one of these systems expects. It is the new bar.

          • ummm…

            well said. im not sure why it is so hard for rifters to understand. it can’t be just so they can sleep well at night because they would tire of lying to themselves and others. what are the real benefits to that rift that makes them so sure that their hardware solution is the right way to go, while drooling in anticipation of touch ironically.

          • Richard

            I’m obviously late to this discussion but you can use 3 cameras with the Oculus Rift and it works fine Roomscale although the Vive is better at it works better for Roomscale. The reason I will probably go for the Oculus Rift though is because of the exclusives which yeah you can play with Vive using third party software right now but that can be shutdown any moment. Meanwhile the Oculus Rift has access to Oculus Home and Steam VR and that wont ever change. I do prefer to play flight sims and shooters, survival games, etc… None of which require Roomscale and everyone agree Oculus Touch is much better than the Vive Wands. Now of course Vive will come out with something similar to touch and Oculus will come out with better Roomscale. Honestly though I just don’t see one being much better than the other. You get about 3 more feet (or 1 extra meter in you are using metric) with Vive or you get better Controls and more games supported natively with Oculus Rift. Both will catch up with each other with new peripherals though so to me the Oculus Rift supporting more games natively is the deal breaker. I don’t think the Oculus Rift and Vive are for two different kinds of people, I just think people have to choose one or the other.

          • ummm…

            i think you should def do what makes you happy. you will have to justify it to yourself. I think you are doing your due diligence and i wont lobby you. However, if roomscale is important for you then you must get the vive. Think about that conical tracking volume, cables, cost, long term strategy etc. that the rift comes weighed down with as far as roomscale. however, if its the oculus home offering that you desire, then you CAN’T go wrong. i dont have oculus home, nor do i feel the need to do seated 180 degree polished experiences. However, i dont bemoan you for wanting it. I see the appeal. Good luck to you. Hopefully ill get to play some of those too, if facebook smartens up. If they think they are going to be apple to smartphones, then they should look at the market trends over the past few years. what do i know?

          • ummm…

            can you tell me about your experience having both more. i dont get extended play time with a rift because i have a vive. i remember when i had an xbox and ps2 i saw small differences, and not only with games. can you help me understand the differences that you see between these two. meaning, when satisfies you or leaves you unsatisfied when you switch back and forth. do you have touch?

          • Mike McLin

            The experience hasn’t been great to be honest. When both headsets are connected, Steam will always (for me) launches VR games into the Rift (even if it is a Vive exclusive game). So, I literally have to keep my Rift disconnected, and only connect it when I want to use it. Just another one of those early adopters quirks that needs to be ironed out. When the systems first came out, the comparison was a little closer. The Rift games were generally more polished than the Vive games. However, the Vive did room scale which was awesome, but the games generally were less polished, so you could at least make an argument that Oculus was as good or better. Then eventually the Vive games caught up, and it really wasn’t even a comparison anymore. I honestly can’t imagine anybody could have had both systems and objectively say that the Rift was the better choice. It basically turned into a waiting game for the Rift (waiting for the Touch controllers) so it could even be comparable again. Now that day has come. I haven’t tried Oculus Touch yet. My preorder is being shipped. Hopefully it is awesome. It’s really the only reason I didn’t sell my Rift.

          • ummm…

            thanks. i hope it is as good. i really do. then all we have to do is tear down that FB wall, if they abide, and hold hands! however, id like to hear more about the effectiveness and reliability of the cameras more. Forgetting the clunky more expensive implementation, if it ends up WORKING and not having these blind spots because of the conical tracking then im actually gonna be happier. that means everyone is about to hit the gas – even if the gas ended up being more expensive for some then others. Having just hardware fragmentation and exclusive content is not that hard to overcome.

        • ummm…

          can you show us that the majority of the market isnt excited about roomscale. you have said that a lot. thats not what i get from the media and from fellow consumers. can you show me something that leads you to believe this? im not against the idea, but i dont see the proof at all.

          • Get Schwifty!

            See my comment above… I don’t have personal access to the market research, but if you peruse different forums there are plenty of folks saying they have little or no interest in room scale, at least not until several generations of refinement down the line. I have read on multiple occasions that broad market research that Oculus uses (agree or not with their reports) shows that the market overall is limited at this stage, and likely represents a small number of users. Could they be lying as people are want to explain everything Oculus does? Maybe, but their reports came out long before we even knew about HTC’s room scale play, so I don’t buy it and also because it conforms to my own experiences listening to people.

            Heck, even PSVR with its millions of potential adopters probably wouldn’t have more than say 1 in 4 with enough space to accommodate it if the system could support it. Now, if HTC or someone else has market research saying the opposite, that say 3 of 4 VR adopters in the mass market desires room scale, I would not only be surprised, I would be shocked as most don’t have the room for it.

            I would be very careful to distinguish between the relatively small number of generation one VR enthusiasts attitudes towards room scale which people are pointing to, to that of the general, less technically and enthusiastic minded market. Just the mere fact that most PC gamers are aware of VR but haven’t bothered with either system tells you a lot right there…

            Now, in my heart I DO believe that in say 20 years or so, most folks will actually plan a space for VR, heck we might even have furniture designed with in mind to easily move out of the way, fold up, etc. In fact, I believe fundamentally building design will accommodate it with built in wireless,space considerations, etc. But that is not today….

    • hyperskyper

      There is absolutely no way that 70% of SteamVR games are only seated or front-facing standing experiences. I have gone through pages and pages games before and I would say that 80% or more are roomscale supported. Some of the games allow you to stand in one place most of the time, but almost all of them require you to turn 360 degrees and walk or teleport (or other locomotion method) in that direction.

      • Get Schwifty!

        I believe most that say “room scale” are really rug-scale experiences, limited to a potentially small 5×5” area at best.

        • hyperskyper

          That isn’t true. No roomscale games that I have played (I’ve played about 50 so far) have any limits on movement. I never even heard of such a thing. Some games even expand the in-game space to encourage you to use all of the space within your boundaries. I have read that Job Simulator adjusts the layout based on the size of your space, but I have not adjusted my boundaries to try it. Roomscale truly fits the scale of your room. 5×5 area is like what Oculus expects for standing games with little room for movement. That is not how most (if any) Vive games are though.

          • Paulo Martel

            Yes, I agree with hyperskyper. That is not the how the majority of Vive room scale games are designed. Honestly, I wouldn’t even have thought of the term “rug scale” before I heard it, as most room scale games use your entire play area. Actually, I ended rolling up my rug, because stepping in and out of it was confusing :D

    • ummm…

      i haven’t listened to the podcast yet, nor have i read through your comments in full. however, i think we notice the same differences but put different spins on it. I’m going to do my due diligence and then get back to you because i enjoy engaging. However, it is nice that we are recognizing the differences and discussing instead of pretending they dont exist.

      in the end i do think they are both great pieces of hardware, but the sometimes small differences can have exponential effect as far as experience.

  • Alexander Hogan

    It is obvious that CV1 wasn’t designed for room scale. If you’ve been watching since the beginning, you could see Oculus being pulled in a couple directions. You had the explosion of R&D that came from that cash injection (they began working on Touch as early as 2014), but there was this decision that instead of releasing cool shit in the future, they should lower their sights to something that can be done nowish. That’s why it suddenly went from “VR is the future imagine the endless possibilities” to “This is a seated experience.” They clearly had a schedule for bringing VR into the mainstream in phases, and competing with Steam as a platform wasn’t part of that schedule. I mean, Touch was obviously ready back at launch, but they’re trying to curate this shit. They wanted people playing like Superhot VR the same day they got their controllers.
    However, they do seem to be supporting room-scale as a reaction, rather than part of their schedule. That’s why they’re just throwing trackers at this shit.

    • Get Schwifty!

      I would agree with that to a large extent, and I believe they made a mistake not releasing the Touch earlier. As for “room-scale” I think they realize in its current state Constellation is not the equivalent of Lighthouse (nor is it bad however, its a degree or two off) and it’s good that HTC is pushing them on this point but at the same time I think the comparison for Lighthouse’ handling of “room-scale” is vastly overstated in it’s importance in the market. I agree too though that its a matter of perception; sticking the clause “experimental” on it is a defensive move to thwart comparisons and undercuts the real world experiences we have from many who have had even just two cameras and the Touch for months now.

      • ummm…

        im not trying to attack you. however, i would not have spent thousands of dollars on continuous upgrades and hardware if roomscale wasn’t priority one. additionally, most vr enthusiasts feel the same way – in my reading of the landscape. it is evident. i wish oculus and facebook would quit their arrogance and focus on limited experiences (with nice polish albeit) and do the right thing. vr is roomscale. vr is not track ir with a display plastered on ur face. it is room scale. it can only be roomscale. it is not viable without roomscale.

        i dont want to come off as a zealot, but as a tech, a movement, a concept, and a viable consumer product it MUST be roomscale.

        • Get Schwifty!

          I think you are like most VR folks (including myself) at this stage, enthusiastic early adopters…. this is the first couple hundred thousand users…. about where we are with combined Rift and Vive sales. Now, onto the millions of potential VR folks who are not going to run out and upgrade their systems, make a room devoted in the house to VR, etc…. we have the seated/standing alternative which more folks will be interested in over room scale…. at least I think that and so does a lot of market research.

          • ummm…

            i dont think that people will spend 100s of dollars for a trackIR upgrade, which is essentially what oculus is offering – given their hamfisted vr solution. why do you think they offered it? because they knew that THIS is what people wanted. They know it is sub par, but they had to do it to “be in the game”. Their games suite and stylish design for seated experiences just wasn’t enough. It isn’t the platform expansion that it should be, yet it is here – thats because they see the writing on the wall.

            Im going to agree to disagree. Devs, vr consumers, tech media/analysts etc. all see a list of advantages that the vive has and have stated a general opinion that is widely agreed with. I think you have a right to your opinion. I dont see why you think that apartments are getting bigger in 20s years, or why people recognize that room scale is where this is going, but want to wait 20 years for it. It is here now. It works wonderfully now. People are excited about THAT hardware NOW. If they weren’t, oculus would not have done it. Oculus’ mistake was not doing it right.

          • ✨EnkrowX✨

            I happily paid 100s of dollars for a “trackIR upgrade” after trying out both. Roomscale is a cool tech demo, but I still have yet to find a game I would want to play that uses it.

            I don’t see why people even see it as necessary. The best experiences I’ve had in VR have been on Rift, in a chair, with my hands on a kind of non tracked controller. The presence is amazing, that’s what really sells VR.

          • ummm…

            ok, cool. im happy that you’ve gotten what you wanted. it obviously isnt necessary for you. so we must admit the vive is more versatile and can do everything the rift can do and more. we can just leave it there. my enjoyment of the vive should not be lessened by your enjoyment of the rift.

          • ✨EnkrowX✨

            Yes, the Vive can do everything the Rift can do. But that doesn’t mean it does everything as well, either. They’re 2 different systems meant for 2 different people and 2 different things.

            Likewise, my enjoyment of the Rift isn’t lessened by others enjoyment of the Vive.

          • ummm…

            why is the vive and rift for two different people?

            what can the rift do better?

          • Mike Handles

            There’s endless debates about this in other forums and even other articles on this site. If you’re genuinely interested in the answer to that question click on just about any article on this site or continue reading comments on this one. Get Schwifty is a champion of the Rift and brings up many good points (although sometimes a little too passionate) I recommend reading his comment below.

          • ummm…

            ive spoken with him several times. i have the conversations. however, the idea that the rift and vive are for two different people is a strange idea. are you going to tell me the rift is for people that want seated experiences? so the rift does seated better, but roomscale worse? you have ideas. express and explain them. im as much a part of the dialogue as you. i dont need to “catch up”.

          • Mike Handles

            Sorry if my comment came across as me saying you needed to “catch up,” I was mostly just trying to direct you to answers to your questions. I now see you were attempting to have the previous comment elaborated on for their specific opinion.

            In my opinion?

            I’m not sure exactly what would be the driving reasons behind a person choosing Vive over Rift or vice-versa but I can speculate based on what is swaying me one way or the other. Being that there are advantages and disadvantages to each I do believe it creates a subset of users under the umbrella of the one “people interested in VR” group. It is a little strange though, I agree, that such a small (relatively) group can be so fiercely divided.

            Up until now the Vive has done roomscale better and that has been the biggest difference, with this latest touch offering I’m sure the differences will be far more minute.

            In all honesty, however, my decision will not likely be based on available tech or benefits from one HMD to the next but instead on my distrust of Facebook as a company. With an ongoing practice of manipulating and taking advantage of their users; Unless they make strides to protect and respect their user’s data and privacy and not just use it for commercial gain I will continue to steer clear of them no matter what they offer going forward as stupid and hard headed as it may sound.

            I know they’re not the only company guilty of such practices, living in this day and age it is borderline impossible to escape exposure to corporate “evil” but when options are available to avoid unnecessary dealings with these companies I will attempt to choose the lesser of evils.

          • ummm…

            Well said. So u haven’t bought. U r waiting for gen 2?

          • Mike Handles

            Not yet. Waiting for gen 2 yeah, though ever since playing around on my buddies Vive a few months ago I’ve been slipping.. might have to get one if they do another deal this christmas :O

          • ummm…

            uve got tpcast coming in early 2017 too. thats WIRELESS roomscale. gonna be cool.

          • ✨EnkrowX✨

            The Rift has a clearer picture (less SDE) due to the higher ppi, and is generally considered to be more comfortable over time.

            The Vive is for people who need to have roomscale, the Rift is for everyone else.

          • ummm…

            this is ridiculous. im not going to debate you about the displays. the differences there are minuscule if they are there at all. im not going to bring up god rays, or lack of distance toggling, or anything else.

            you are so intellectually disingenuous that its difficult to have a discussion.

          • ✨EnkrowX✨

            The differences are pretty clear if you’ve tried them back to back.

            Neither system has to be the best at everything. Neither system is best at everything. And you know what? That’s fine.

            If one system was actually completely superior, nobody would be buying the other one. However, people are buying both, with current estimates at HTC holding 6% of the VR market, and Facebook holding 11%. http://1u88jj3r4db2x4txp44yqfj1.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/VR-vendors-01consulting.png

          • ummm…

            wish you happiness with the rift. enjoy the holiday.

          • TheBileStoad

            The reality is FB & Rift “decided” that sit down controller in front of computer was their offering.

            Steam / HTC came along with frankly a much better product. Yup, I will say it. It can do sit down AND do room scale. Play some room scale games and you will see being able to navigate around objects is a game changer.

            Rift & FB are not trying to catch up with….an offering “patch” to try and say they room scale too.

            I think it was a mistake 1) to not include roomscale 2) if you are not really set up for it, dont put a patch on it

          • ummm…

            i hear ya. howver, im trying to get the opinion of ppl that are actually using it, and not just relying on the hardware spec that we already have. so far ive heard a handful of bad reviews from users/reviewers/developers, but im not getting a lot of info from the commentors here. there has got to be a reddit thread somewhere.

        • Dave

          You seem to be very small minded. Vive and Rift are PC products. Do you actually know what games are played on PC’s. Flight sims, space sims, strategy games, driving games, shooters. Very little need currently for roomscale. These are the established products – these are the real products driving VR right now – look at the youtube videos.

          Roomscale can be very engaging. However in reality it’s far from appealing to lining up the coffers of the game studio executives. To them it’s a gimmick – you only have to take a look at SteamVR experiences for proof of this – nothing substantial. Sure these HMD’s are relatively new on the market, but there’s nothing from a AAA games developers that’s even comming close to utilising roomscale. It’s just not economically viable at the moment.

          People should just dial back there roomscale expectations and enjoy what VR has to offer as it is. The future could change but don’t expect everybody to be playing roomscale because it’s just not going to happen, not now, not in the next 5 years, it’s just too niche and gimmicky for the devs to care.

          • ummm…

            dave, im not gonna get into it with you. im done with this bs. i thought we could talk about the solutions we are offered and push things forward for an ultimate solution. enjoy sitting and/or looking forward. I for one can do that and more with my prepar3d and fsx (with full panel touch controls for months) my project cars, my elite dangerous, euro truck simulator, plus all my wonderful roomscale sims like golf club vr etc etc. enjoy what you have. i honestly dont give a poo anymore. just dont have that attitude effect the general direction of vr. oculus saw that they are wrong and they offered a hamfisted solution. you are happy with it. dont infect the market with this complacency. enjoy the holidays and your touch. when there is cross platform gaming on steam, if it isn’t there now – friend me on steam at nycpcgamer. we can do some raw data. although im afraid that you may not be able to get my back since, well, you can’t turn around!

        • edge

          “vr is roomscale”

          Despite the moderate privilege my lifestyle represents, room scale is still a non-starter for me. And the reasons why reveal a lot.

          I have a 4 bedroom, 2200 sq ft house I share with my wife, two young kids, and a live-in nanny. I am lucky enough to have the largest, non-master bedroom dedicated to my computer and workbench. I just got my Touch set up in there… and I STILL don’t have the recommended 5×7 feet available. I simply can’t take over a larger space.

          Which leads me to the question… who the hell has a 15×15 ft roomscale space, the money to buy all this expensive equipment (and buy housing with large enough space), the time (not sunk in the job that makes the money for the tech and the housing) to actually use the equipment, and isn’t a douchebag for hogging common areas for VR? Independently-wealthy, childless tech enthusiasts living in large warehouse loft apartments with other independently-wealthy, childless tech enthusiasts OR the people reviewing technology for a living. I see a problem. Do you?

          Specifically, Vive is too much technology pointed at a very small viable market that’s just begging for the hardware and software market to collapse. If Vive drives development of full roomscale where only reviewers and enthusiasts can use it, they will not realize the kind of profits that bring us to mainstream viability. By comparison, Rift fits and adapts the average space better, but only marginally so (and can do so for $200 less in many cases). Arguably, the mainstream will be seated. Because sitting is comfortable.

          I have hope for so called inside-out tracking, wireless, and omnitreads; but the other problems are still there and they only get worse. We can throw more money and tech at the problems… and subsequently make it cost even more and enable even larger spaces we don’t have. We have to admit VR is STILL in beta, and it’s not the tech that’s holding us back. The tech is ALREADY too big for the mainstream market.

          No, VR is NOT roomscale on an existential level, Mr. Zealot. It’s whatever you have space for, and given the rapidly saturating market (see the growth curve flattening out as we speak?), we should be looking for ways to be inclusive, sometimes at the expense of our insipid futurist viewpoints.

          • ummm…

            amazing. absolutely ridiculous. FIrstly, i live in nyc. we dont normally keep cars because it is too expensive and consumes too much space. does that mean that cars shouldn’t exist or that all cars should be mini?

            your line of reasoning is ridiculous, and while i understand your choice, they mean nothing in the real world. If the vive could only do room scale at 800 then id say you have a point. THE VIVE DOES SEATED AND ROOM SCALE AT A CHEAPER PRICE AND BETTER THAN THE RIFT. Case freaking closed homeslice.

            Happy holiday. Enjoy your more expensive and less reliable device. As long as you are happy.

          • Paulo Martel

            Actually, VR is room scale. VR stands for Virtual _Reality_. VR is not using stereoscopic tracked glasses sitting in front of a computer. If the reality you are trying to “virtualize” is a seated reality (like flying a spaceship), then fine. But those are particular cases. You don’t play escape the room, table tennis, pool, archer or sword fight siting in the real world. A large number of VR experiences are not seated experiences, the same way that a large number of living experiences are not seated. And this is what Virtual Reality is aiming for: to bring you a simulated world where you can live simulated real word experiences (and of course go much beyond that). Of course Oculus may prefer to focus solely on seated experiences, because room scale, as you say, is not for everybody, at least for now. You can have fun and games with seated experiences, but VR is much more than that. I’m glad that HTC & Valve are investing in room scale, because that is where the future of VR lies.

  • wheeler

    On point as always Kent. I really like how you always stress the importance of an open ecosystem and I wish more journalists would focus on this. For most it seems an afterthought but for the long term it is absolutely critical for consumer friendly VR.

  • G Mac

    On the one hand, the author acknowledges the superior ergonomics of Touch over the Vive controllers (while subtly addressing the latter as an “initial” iteration, implying there are better controllers around the corner), while on the other he claims the Vive wands are better for immersion because the Touch’s buttons… something something abstraction.

    What? Is the Author implying that the Touch’s superior ergonomics, and the resulting faithful and seamless representation of hand presence in the VR environment they afford, are somehow voided by the presence of conventional gamepad buttons, giving the spatula-like Vive wands an edge in immersion? That’s utterly absurd.

    The reason Vive-focused game devs have avoided using “abstractions” isn’t because of some high-minded effort to aid immersion; it’s because the Vive wands’ touch pads are awful, imprecise, and totally devoid of useful tactile feedback beyond a weak haptic bump or click. They require a high level of thumb precision which in the heat of the moment is unachievable, as opposed to the Touch’s eminently mashable buttons and sticks.

    Between this glaring cognitive dissonance, and the supposed setup woes (Show me someone who set up a Vive faster than a Rift and Touch and I’ll show you someone whose PC is a dud), this article smacks of bias and sour grapes. I expect better of RtoVR.

    • Get Schwifty!

      I rarely attack people but I encourage you to read up on Kent “Drive” Bye’s social media, etc and see his distaste for Trump and most likely his dislike for Palmer Luckey over the whole 10K he donated to a group. I have a very hard time believing that more than a little bias exists is in his reporting when it comes to Oculus due to their association with Facebook, a company he doesn’t care for.

      This is the 2nd time that Oculus is getting some good press immediately followed by a pro-Vive, anti-Oculus toned “OP-ED” piece from good old “Drive” Bye. At least he isn’t pan-handling to support his “independent journalist” career this time around.

      • ummm…

        i think you are allowing the authors profile (in your mind) to cloud your ability to objectively analyze the facts. In your mind his dislike of Trump supercedes his ability to be clear headed when speaking about what he has devoted his professional life to; vr. This is really bad logic. You are assuming that his feelings for Trump invade every aspect of his cognitive life.

    • Billy H

      I agree, I just finished listening to the podcast, and it is extremely biased. I just got my Touch Controllers last night, and they are amazing. Bullet Train demo is insane, talk about being Neo from the Matrix! As far as roomscale I setup a 7ft by 7ft. playspace, with two cameras front facing. I was playing full 360, only losing touch tracking when my body blocked them, with back facing the cameras. Not that big of a deal, turn a few degrees or move hand to the side and tracking is back. I will setup a bigger area, just need to move more stuff out of the room and add the third camera. Then I should have full roomscale and full hand presence. Most of the bickering about HTC and Oculus is a non-issue, especially now, that they both have hand tracking. You can play every VR experience on either HMD.

    • ummm…

      what he is saying is that the more input you do with your fingers and the less with your body is the difference between body presence and removed presence. If the rift relies more on button pressing, then that means the vive relies more on body “pressing” lol. anyway it is a valid point – you can decide if you want to stand still looking straight and press buttons, or twirl around the room using your body. wii was a hit tho………..

    • mm

      Yea setting up the Vive is a pain in the ass but true PC heads love that shit! It’s like Mac vs PC, and android vs ios. Tech heads prefer the more complex system with more bells and whistles and a more OPEN platform all day. The Rift is for kids and teens..

    • Paulo Martel

      What he said: the Touch has more buttons, more controlling possibilities… except that you don’t interact with reality pushing buttons. The more limited controlling possibilities of the Vive wands have pushed developers to design a mode of interaction that is more akin to how we interact with things in the real world. Having more control is an advantage that comes with a price, that of a less “embodied” experience in VR. If you wave your “hand” to say goodbye, instead of pressing a button, it will feel more like you are really “there”. That being said, of course nothing prevents Oculus developers to create VR experiences where the Touch is used more in this way. :)

  • DiGiCT Ltd

    @kent Bye , the most important not releasing on Oculus home but rather on steam for me is simply that i wnat people to play the game on any devicce, and if you like the game but want to upgrade you HMD in future to a better HMD which would not be an oculus, you be forced to rebuy all your games!
    I still play old games from many years ago, as they are just good games to enjoy from time to time.
    Oculus aproach would just force me to buy always theirs, and thats something we as devlopers cant support at all.
    Only pay once and enjoy.

    Besides the controller part, you should not worry to much as it all will work out for anybody.
    We are developing a game at this moment that will be Hybrid gaming.
    This means simply that even PC gamers can play the game together with VR gamers.
    Although the way you play the game may have its cons and pros, but it is the same in PC gaming, everyone has its own preference for a certain game on how to play it.

    Our game is an online game where player compete eachother, it is very important to have enough players online to get matchmaking do the work correctly.
    Besides that we also need to think about rift will have still gamepad players as well as touch players.
    It is just a matter of designing the game to fit the device to make it good.
    But alwya keep the option open for players to be able to upgrade their gear and still enjoy the game without reburying it.

    There is where Oculus made the mistake, closed platforms will never work out at the end.
    VHS won the video standard battle in the past not because they were tech best, but rather they were the only one being open for any video content,
    Same for MP3 and DiVx codecs being now a more common standard or even improved to better open codecs now being the ones used.
    Eventually open platforms will always be the winners, to much history data proves this is right.

  • ummm…

    why am i so personally invested in hearing people admit that the vive is a better overall solution, and degrees of superior in the most important way? what is it within me and other gen 1 adopters of either headset that pushes some of us to want to hear the “other” say it? its such a personality fault.

    • Alexander Hogan

      What really gets me riled up is the narrative, which is a dumb thing to do when it’s clear this little console war will be moot by gen2.

      • Get Schwifty!

        Yup… it’s all a fear wrapped around loss or suppression of room scale that is needless…

      • ummm…

        im not sure why you think it will be moot. I think oculus will rebound with a strong product that LISTENS to its consumers, or at least i hope. Or they can go the apple route and make a “pretty” piece of hardware that is limited, closed, and in some ways inferior. They are full of contradictions. We hear that oculus is elegant. It is. That elegance also means that there is no IPD adjustment, a big open space by your nose, and wires from cameras that dont track head to toe.

    • AndyP

      Discontent is an important human trait – if directed well – it drove us to beyond the (perfectly good) seas to the stars; but probably best used on human progress than here!

      • ummm…

        well, we have the ability to meet our survival needs (although the free market seems to have too many flaws to realize it, at the moment) and now can move on to the full creative expression that we crave. Our discontent is no longer reserved for survival, but for the “superficial” Thats vr for me. However, i wouldnt be against giving up my vr to cure some of the worlds ills, lol.

    • Mike Handles

      I don’t know man, but I always enjoy your questions and those of others, sometimes I don’t even read the full article instead jumping to the comments section to see the firestorm.. maybe we’re all a little nuts one way or another.

      (PS. Vive is superior! muhahaha)

      • ummm…

        Yeah I do that too sometimes. U do realize that means we are most likely sociopaths. Vive le vive!

        • Mike Handles

          hahah, yuup

  • AndyP

    Purchase a third sensor? Is it too that difficult to work out or too expensive when you’ve spent £500+ on the Rift, £600+ on a GPU, £300+ on a CPU etc, etc…? “Open” blah blah blah: “heaven forbid anyone who has invested billions would attempt to make money, while we sit on our arses complaining”, the majority of consumers couldn’t care less – and they’re the people who will make VR succeed or go the way of 3D TVs! What’s important is that right now, after the Touch release “knocked the ball RIGHT out of the park” (which you can actually do in VR Sports!) is that we have TWO absolutely amazing systems like we dreamed of as children – yeha! I’m off to shoot some zombies in the face!!!

    • ummm…

      hahaha. ok well i bought the vive for less 8 months ago and have been hitting balls out of the park since then. ive got an app for that.

      edit: rift is nice. however, if we dont let FB know when they are erring, then they will continue to err. Id be happy to buy a rift, when they get it right. Right for me is robust roomscale. Not seated polish.

      • AndyP

        The Touch room scale works with two sensors, so long as you don’t turn your back to certain angles and block them out – with three (1 extra/rear sensor) it’s perfect; sure they could have got it perfect with two first gen, but it’s not much of an issue and is overstated when everything else for 1st gen is amazing. Difference and competition are to be celebrated as ultimately everyone will benefit. I’m more concerned, in the real world scheme of things, that FB avoid taxes – but that’s a different issue! Back to the park, and zombies…

        • ummm…

          andy it isn’t perfect. you have issues because of the conical tracking. you have cord issues because of the camera usb plugs. it ends up costing more than the vive solution and being less accurate and powerful.

          i agree with you competition is good. but oculus isn’t competing here. they are trying to sell a less powerful solution for more, and in doing so fragmenting the market and their own consumer base. gen 2 im going to look at them anew again – but their strategy and marketing tell me that they WONT learn.

          in the end dude, i want you to have a fun time. you are still in roomscale no matter the differences; and no matter how unimportant rifters insist it is. im nycpcgamer on steam. hit me up. im not sure if we can do cross platform, but if we can im more than down to kill some zombies with you. ive got basically every game, so im sure we can find one we both can enjoy. have a happy holiday.

          • AndyP

            Coolio!

          • AndyP

            P.S. I built a wired, insulated and heated cabin in my garden, then an i7 1080 PC to play this, so not bothered about cord issues – LOL – but you are absolutely correct for the all important masses.

          • ummm…

            tpcast is about to drop for the vive and make it wireless. id be happy when that comes stock for both of us. vive can do it because they have an open platform and court third party devs.

            what i can’t get with my vive is that sick heated cabin in your garden. that sounds awesome. that sounds really really really awesome. cant buy that on the vive store!

          • Andrew Jakobs

            oh please, it’s not like the lighthouse tracking is perfect, it also has problems with oclussion, it also has problems with loosing tracking. At this point there is NO real good tracking that works in all conditions, NOT Lighthouse, NOT Constellation.

          • ummm…

            wrong wrong wrong wrong. you never get tired do you andrew. occlusion is a real thing. that will not go away. and honestly it doesnt’ happen much at all. I have the correct setup. As far as the rest, you are just being blind. these are facts we are discussing. not opinion. just because ive got a vive does’nt mean im a zealot. i got a vive BECAUSE i looked at the facts.

          • ummm…

            why do you get under my skin so much andrew, lol? have you used a vive, or a rift for that matter? i forget from our previous conversations. you develop correct?

          • mm

            Hate to disappoint you but wrong, my tracking has been perfect.
            Even tracks when I step out of the area a bit. Have you even used a Vive?

          • Paulo Martel

            Actually, the lighthouse tracking is really good. The only times it has failed for me are:
            1) When I go too far out of the playing area (it has some tolerance)
            2) When there are more people in the playing area, occluding the Lighthouses
            3) When the player bumps one of the LH tripods really hard, and even then the tracking recovers in a second or two…

            Ok, I don’t have reflective surfaces in my playing environment, so I don’t know how much of a problem that would be.

  • AndyP

    This isn’t zero-sum, we’ve all just won MASSIVE!

    • ummm…

      absolutely. some more than others, but absolutely. I’d hazard to say that the rift solution is sub par. But this will be rectified in gen 2 hopefully. VR shouldnt’ be about vive vs rift, it should be about best solutions. If OSVR or FOVE or any other headsets get it right – bam – im dropping my vive in a second.

  • Dave

    Is roomscale that important? You say fragmented catalog. I would argue that this means more variety. You seem to have put a lot of emphisis on comparing the Rift with the Vive for roomscale when I think at this early stage of VR it’s about having a quality games and experiences, roomscale gimmicks alone are not enough to sell these units and certainly the quality roomscale offerings are few and far between – maybe you should have factored that into you little equation…

    • ummm…

      devs dont want to make experiences for 20 different hardware configurations, especially when you think that it isn’t just about going to settings and changing some slider, the differences go down to are you sitting and using a controller or standing and in a room scale tracked controller experience. It is a very simple problem to diagnose, but a tough one to solve with the way FB has approached it.

      room scale is not a gimmick. you must get beyond this thought. if anything seated is a gimmick. its TrackIR with a display on your face.

      • AndyP

        Agree we don’t want to make it difficult for devs. On a related note I’m not sure (not giving a definitive) that Wii like steering wheels, fishing rods and snow shovels that are used once, waste consumers money and undermine a technology are are good idea, at first generation at least.

        • ummm…

          well its true. with valves push for peripherals will that fragment too? it could. but in onward i wouldn’t mind a gun. in golf club vr i wouldn’t mind a tracked golf club etc. etc. i think there could be controller options. but there also MUST be the assumption taht a controller is needed. right now FB doesn’t even want to admit that controllers are here, and that they must do it right. they want to continue saying roomscale is peripheral – and all you need if you want to do it is THIS one controller and to buy more imperfect tracking solutions. it is so insulting. it is so vampiric. it is so dissapointing. the flack they are getting is real. it is deserved. nice product, but not the nicest. it is their consumer that is losing. people that trusted them. people that root for them. in the end the rift is a beautiful device. but it isn’t the best, and the ecosystem around it is troubling. i boughy my vive, one price, 8 months ago, and have more functionality and more reliability. Rift is starting to look like no mans sky.

          • mm

            look like No Mans Sky..LOL! thanks. Yes I had a hard time deciding but so glad I chose the Vive as I see whats happening. Developers are not having it..

          • ummm…

            i really do hope that rift gets it together. but, while they dont im happy to have my decision be so clearly the right one.

      • Andrew Jakobs

        Both are ‘gimmicks’ and both are not. As you can see here there are already a lot of different ideas about what is IT and what not.
        You have to take into account that people on this board are enthousiasts and a lot will make ‘large’ room for their VR experience, but you have to come of your horses and be realistic and know what audience you are targetting. If it’s business than you can take into account that some larger space is available, if it’s gaming/regular consumers you’ll have to take into account that A LOT of people just don’t have the space for decend ‘roomscale’ VR, and it will propably be more like ‘rugscale’ (as someone here is calling it). Also if you are doing a racing/flying game you don’t really have to take roomscale into account..
        Let’s not forget there are a lot of different VR users out there, and a lot will use it just with sitting (driving/flying simulators etc), and a lot will use it standing, and a lot will use it with decend ‘roomscale’.. There is no definit better experience as you and I have different ideas on what we like to experience..

        • ummm…

          this arguemtn worked before oculus released touch. . you can’t take this line of reasoning without indicting the rift. vive does seated and roomscale better and at a cheaper price. peace out.

        • Paulo Martel

          You don’t get the point. This is not a discussion about how many people can afford or step up room scale, or how many people like to play flying and racing simulators. VR goes way beyond the usual game crowd. You sit in real life for driving a car, but that’s a very small part of your life experiences. VR is meant to offer all kinds of virtual experiences, sitting, standing, walking, running (or flying!). We should stop thinking in terms of what the gaming crowd thinks it’s more fun or what they play more. VR will be used for many things, and many people who dislike computer games will love to play with, because it will afford experiences that are nothing like the usual “computer thing”. Take a game like “Eleven: Table Tennis VR”… it’s an extremely realistic ping pong simulation, where moving around is absolutely necessary. People who normally don’t play computers games are loving it, because it feels like the real thing. That is the future of VR, and room scale is an essential part of that future.

    • Andrew Jakobs

      And as I have said repeatedly, most consumers don’t have the space for decend roomscale experiences, so it will end up more to ‘standing’ experiences anyway.
      And let’s not forget, both tracking systems have their problems, and I think a compromise is necessary for better tracking, so partially lighthouse based and partially camera based.

  • ✨EnkrowX✨

    Why is roomscale such a big deal? Part of the allure of Touch for me is that it isn’t designed to be roomscale. Way easier to use and set up.

    • AndyP

      It is roomscale – I’m using it now in a 8 by 10ft space with 3 sensors and it works brilliantly. Sitting is also good, I need a rest for time to time!

      • ummm…

        hows the tracking towards the ground, outside of the cone? did you use the tested method of camera set up? im interested to know if the issues stated are effecting usability. like do you lose tracking if you touch the ground or go below the waist, or do you just sometimes occlude?

      • ummm…

        andy when you get a chance can you answer the questions i asked:

        hows the tracking towards the ground, outside of the cone? did you use the tested method of camera set up? im interested to know if the issues stated are effecting usability. like do you lose tracking if you touch the ground or go below the waist, or do you just sometimes occlude?

        • AndyP

          Sry, I missed this. I spent lots of time messing with positioning of the sensors, I’m fortunate to be able to put them anywhere though. I also spent quite a lot of time fixing issues with USB controllers for some reasons I don’t fully understand or have the time to worry about after resolution (but there’s a LOT plugged into my PC in PCI-E and USB terms). No trouble picking up objects from the ground, but I do still get VERY occasional occlusion issues – so I’ll be spending time off over Christmas moving some of the crap I keep acquiring out of the way (including 9 mostly large speakers) and tweaking the sensor positions. I’ve never pretended that conical sensors are the best solution – they are not, and I knew that before pre-ordering for other reasons (not getting into the fan boy stuff, I did my research and bought what was best for me on balance and for the long run) – but it’s working really well with three sensors (two was a pain) and I’m VERY happy.

          • AndyP

            P.S. at least it was quicker than building a holodeck ;o)

          • ummm…

            that really rubs me the wrong way, that third sensor. I think it is aweful that rifters are forced to pay MORE for something that isn’t as elegant and useful as far as roomscale goes. but im very pleased it actually works in the end if you can get the setup right. that is awesome. as for occlusion. deal with it. its never going to be perfect. i have some VERY VERY occasional occlusion with my vive. not enough to be a problem, and not annoying enough for me to look for a solution. id imagine there is none, other than putting my lighthouses higher.

            anyhow glad you got this going. i wont have to argue with rifters anymore about the importance of roomscale to vr. in effect it IS vr.

          • AndyP

            Agree and kind of good (but bad!) to know that it’s not just us. For first gen it still feels like the holodeck, so not complaining. Just imagine how good gen 2, 3, 4 are going to be (if it takes off)!

    • AndyP

      The important issue isn’t roomscale, that’s all fine for a piffling extra £79, the real issue is locomotion – with devs treating us like children with car sickness – and teleportation arrgghh! Now I’m complaining when I have better things to do!

      • ✨EnkrowX✨

        Yeah, I hope we get better locomotion soon. I’m not a fan of teleportation either.

      • ummm…

        there are a good deal of experiences without teleportation on the steam store.

    • ummm…

      you can do that with the vive too, for cheaper and more reliable. it is easier to set up, but only if you dont have an extra 30 mins of time. this is such a ridiculous reason. have you ever set up a vive?

      • ✨EnkrowX✨

        I have set up a Vive before. As I stated in a different comment, the hassle is also why my brother never uses his Vive.

        The lighthouses require both a proper place to put them, and power. Running the cables for power is a pain in the ass, and I have neither tripods nor high spots to put the little things. Whereas with the rift, I can place the camera on the included stand on my desk in 2 seconds and never have to mess with it again.

        • ummm…

          ok. plugging in a couple of items befuddles you and your brother. i wouldn’t admit that in public as if that was our problem. enjoy your rift bud. lol. myself and the people that think clearly about vr say differently.

          • ✨EnkrowX✨

            “the people that think clearly”
            Nice argument there, my dude.

          • ummm…

            enjoy the holiday buddy. have fun with the rift.

          • end_terror_now

            I guarantee you anyone with a rift will enjoy the holidays. Seems you spend more time on these discussions trying to defend your purchase than you do playing your vive. Let it go man, time is better spent in playing with your vr than talking about it or trying to defend it. You bought a tremendous piece of kit, now go have fun. I can assure you I will.

          • ummm…

            there is a big difference between discusses the vr hardware landscape and defending the vive. It just so happens the facts are with the vive. I can see how you got confused.

    • Paulo Martel

      Room-scale is a “big deal” because VR is a big deal. And VR is not just about sitting playing games with tracked stereoscopic goggles. Seated experiences are
      a small part of living, experiencing and interacting with a virtual world. They may sell well, they may be easier to setup and they may be what most gamers want. But they are a very, very small part of what VR has to offer. Even room scale is still a small step towards what we would like to have, but it’s a small step in the right direction.

      • ummm…

        paulo it isn’t worth it. i spent all day on here yesterday arguing with people that move the goal posts, lie by omission, outright misrepresent etc. let them have their rifts. many of the reviews on the internet etc, such as on uploadvr are saying the rift is the machine to buy. lol. as a vive owner i know the truth – thats why i got the vive. when there is a line at a convention – or when our friends come over for a demo – its the vive. gen 2 can change it. but as it stands now people are either ignorant or afraid to state the obvious.

      • ✨EnkrowX✨

        VR can be about whatever you want it to be. It can be watching movies in a virtual theatre, it can be piloting a jet fighter, exploring space, playing pool, exploring the wilderness on foot, etc. VR can be whatever you want to do. Not all of those experiences are best in roomscale. For many experiences, roomscale is not needed at all.

        It’s cool that we have roomscale, but not everyone needs it or wants it.
        The people who really care about roomscale likely already have a Vive anyway.

        • Paulo Martel

          I already told you: seating is a particular case of room scale, because you can choose to seat somewhere within your playing area. In games or other experiences where you are confined to a small space, like flying an airplane, of course you don’t need room scale. When you’re watching a movie you don’t need your legs, but does that make them any less worth having ?… What I’m saying is that sitting is but a small part of all the experiences you can have in VR. Of course there are alternatives to room scale, like VR treadmills but they won’t work for everything. Try playing virtual ping pong in a treadmill! Room scale is not perfect and cannot be a solution for every VR situation, but it is certainly better than _just_ sitting. Saying “I’m fine with seated VR” is like saying “I’m fine with being a couch potato, I don’t want to do sports”.

          • ✨EnkrowX✨

            But what if I don’t want to play sports? Why do I have to play sports? I keep on asking this, and the only answer I seem to get from the Vive crowd is that I’m just supposed to because sports are “better”.

            But the reality is, even irl, not everyone likes sports. Not everyone even cares about sports at all. Not everyone wants to play sports, or plays sports. So why should everyone want their VR to be roomscale?

          • Paulo Martel

            I really wish you would leave the Vive vs. Oculus debate out of this conversation. I’m just discussing the differences between seated-only and room scale VR, and both systems can do either one. Ok, you don’t like sports, fine. But two things:
            1) The world doesn’t revolve around you. Lots of people in the world like to do sports and play active games… after all there’s a reason why the WII sold more than 1 million units. So sports matter very much to a lot of people, and it’s important that they play a part in the future of VR. This has nothing to do with the “Vive crowd”, these people will choose any system allowing them to play such games.
            2) When I said “sitting is just a small part of the VR experience”, I didn’t mean to say the other part was just sports. Some sports are just a good example of how room scale is needed, but I’m thinking about the general VR experience, where moving in a space (even a constrained one) is an important aspect. After all , the sum of our live experiences is made of much more than the times we spent sitting on a chair. Is it so hard to understand that the full VR experience needs to deal with this aspect ?… To experience virtual worlds (and again I’m not talking about just gaming or sports) we need to be able to do much more than sitting. Room scale is not Vive’s or Oculus’ or anybody else’s… is just moving in the VR space the way you are supposed to. It may not always be practical or possible, but it’s an essential part of the territory.

          • ✨EnkrowX✨

            I said “Vive crowd”, because you’re just making a lot of the same arguments I hear from diehard Vive people, while having a Vive avatar.

            Yes, the world does not revolve around me. That being said, VR is still too complicated and expensive aside from maybe Gear VR to sell to the kind of people who bought a Wii. Many of those people weren’t gamers. Additionally, something being popular doesn’t make it inherently good. I’d rather see VR be a sustainable, high quality niche than devolve to the level of the majority of modern gaming.

            In real life, sitting, standing, etc are as big of a part of your life as you want them to be. Roomscale isn’t always needed, moving around is not always something you need to do, and it’s not something needed in every game or app.

            There are plenty of ways to experience virtual worlds, with roomscale being one of them. Roomscale is an option for a VR experience, not a requirement.

          • RockstarRepublic

            You are looking at it all wrong, imo.

            1) This is the early adopter phase, its not supposed to appeal to those that the Gear VR or “the kind of people who bought a Wii”. The industry, the market, the tech, it needs time to mature. It will be expensive until the kind of parts needed become more common and perfected. For example, the new chip Valve is recommending that cuts the price for each light house unit considerably, and improves performance.

            Venture capitalist expect this to be a multi-billion dollar industry by 2020, its not about the now but about where its going to be. We are the “beta” testers, those who buy in are the early adopters. Many are also content creators.

            The cost is appropriate. Also remember, a new premium phone like the samsung galaxy or the iphone, without some contract deal, is going to cost roughly the same amount. If you look at these displays as new HDTVs or Phones that are bundled with controllers and other peripherals, the price point actually feels a bit low. Hell, my new ultrawide monitor cost upwards of $600.

            Its about perspective and target audience.

            2) On the subject of roomscale. Do not think of it as different play styles. Its not. Think of it only as “range” for tracking purposes. These headsets track movement. Roomscale just implies that the tracking range and even precision is greater.
            It doesnt matter if its sitting down, laying down, or jumping all over the place. Its not about playstyle in other words. The greater range means more options, better tracking and better range.

            If the Rift has one sensor, its still trying to track your movement. If the Vive has two sensors with wider range, its just tracking movement. They are the same, the scale and range are the only relevant difference. Its not that one is designed for one style of play and the other is not. They are doing the same thing, only the Vive is doing it better.

          • ✨EnkrowX✨

            1. Yes, a smartphone for VR does cost a pretty penny. However, the people who use mobile VR likely already had such a phone, or were in the market for a new phone anyway. Because of this, the cost of the phone isn’t really a factor.
            I understand this is the early adopter phase. This is exactly why most consumers will not be giving VR a shot. I don’t see why we should be worried about whether VR will appeal to them if they aren’t even at the table.

            2. Roomscale is a different playstyle, or control style in an app. If the space isn’t there, or the need isn’t there in the app, whether or not your tracking system is capable of it is irrelevant.
            Of course the Vive does roomscale better, it was designed for it. Likewise, the Rift CV1 was not designed to offer a roomscale experience.

            Roomscale is there for those who want it. However, roomscale is not needed to have a great experience in VR. And that’s fine.

          • RockstarRepublic

            Again I do not think you are getting it.

            It is just TRACKING information. Forget experience, look at what is happening. The headset is being tracked, its movement monitored. Roomscale is just a fun marketing word, all it means is that the tracking range is broader. The Rift is also tracking, but with ONE tracking device, the range is not as broad.

            Do you get it? Its all the same thing. Its not about what something is designed for, as they are all designed with the same concept in mind. You can sit at your desk with a Vive and its the same thing, only if you move more that range is there. It doesnt mean every experience is designed for you to get up and walk around. Those same “get up and walk around” games can be had with the rift too, it just wouldnt be very good.

            So you have the same general experience, only the range is different.

            Think of it like getting two vehicles. One is an SUV that can go off road, or up steep hills. The other is a regular car, with a smaller engine. Both offer the same basic experience, getting from point A to point B. They operate in much the same way. The SUV however has a range that allows it go off road, over obstacles or up steep hills that the regular car will struggle with. Now unlike this comparison, the Vive actually requires less resources than the Rift.

            Its simply a matter of range and tracking accuracy. Thats it. At the end of the day the Rift will cost about the same if not more if you opt for their touch controllers ($199).

            At least with the Vive your range is greater (tracking), better accuracy and you get an outward facing camera which can alert you if you are going to hit your desk, or where your keyboard is..ect Not trying to sell you off the Rift but just understand that you are not picking between roomscale vs sitting, you are picking between one with wider range and one with shorter more limited range… thats it (outside of features like outward facing camera, PC resource cost..ect). They are going to be roughly the same price if you opt for its new controllers.

            Food for thought.

          • ✨EnkrowX✨

            Yes, they are both doing the same thing, tracking. However, they were designed for tracking different things. One was designed with roomscale in mind, while the other was not.

            In the same two vehicle comparison, it’s not like that’s the end of it. Both vehicles have their own advantages and disadvantages. Sure, the regular car will not offroad, but it will take corners better and get better MPG. And if you aren’t ever intending to go offroading, whether or not your vehicle can is irrelevant. Which has been my point-if you want roomscale, go for the Vive.

            The Rift does some things better, but does not have that feature. In the same way that you wouldn’t tell someone to go buy a Porsche 911 if they want to go offroading, you wouldn’t tell someone who just wants to go to a racetrack to buy a Jeep Wrangler.

            Both the Vive and Rift excel at what they’re each designed to do, as the Porsche 911 and Jeep Wrangler excel at what they’re designed to do. They’re different products for different people.

          • RockstarRepublic

            You say the Vive was designed for Room scale and the Rift was not? How? The moment you buy those $199 touch controllers, you get another “light house” device, putting it at same place as the Vive (only the Vive is doing it better on a tracking level).

            You are still putting up TWO devices that track movement. The Vive sends out invisible light that gets reflected back in order get a 3D approximation of what is going on. The Rift use a camera that tracks infrared light coming from the peripherals and headset to do essentially the same thing.

            Again its the same thing. Games that are coming out for VR are available on what? Both the Vive and the Rift. Do you see the difference? There isnt any.

            “Roomscale” is just a marketing word. If GAME X comes out on the Vive and the Rift, which one is designed to be for “roomscale” and which one is not?
            Its still the same game.

            Developers can make whatever kind of game they want to make, both the Rift and the Vive use the same kind of technology to pick up and track movement. Thats it.

            If you do not want “roomscale”, then you can just sit down with the Vive in the same way you can the Rift. The sensors will track based on their range. Vive has better range/scale than the Rift, but both are doing the same darn thing.

            I don’t know how many times I can say this. Don’t get caught up in the marketing terminology. Its the same stuff. Both Rift and Vive offer “roomscale” and stationary, in fact stationary has to work in some kind of roomscale anyway… only its more narrow.

            Get it? Game X on both headsets plays exactly the same. What difference does it make if the gameplay is the same? Developers make the content, and the content is targeting BOTH platforms.

          • RockstarRepublic

            “However, they were designed for tracking different things. One was designed with roomscale in mind, while the other was not.”

            No. They are tracking the same things. Can you name what is different?
            Is the Vive’s headset being tracked for use in 3D? yes. Controllers? Yes.
            Is the Rift’s headset being tracked for use in 3D? yes. Controllers? Yes.

            In one rift demo, you have to lean down and hammer at an anvil to create a spear and then throw it. You can dodge enemy fire by moving to the left or right. You have to throw your hands up in the air to create a lighting attack.

            When loading up the Vive, and triggering the set up phase. Do you know what it asks you? Whether you are doing room scale or stationary. The only difference being whether or not bounds are beings set up and the headset calibrated.

            Guess what Oculus said? It supports Roomscale. Its kind of why you get an extra sensor when you buy the touch controllers, so it can track their movement in the same way you track a Vive wand.

            You keep thinking they are different, or designed for different markets. They are not. You really have to understand this. It is the same thing with slightly different approaches and one has more features than the other. Vive’s front facing camera lets you find your keyboard or mouse, it lets you see the world around you even while sitting at a desk. The Rift does not have that for CV1. The Vive’s approach offers better tracking. The Rift does not. The Vive is a tad heavier and probably slightly less comfortable. It has wider range out of the box when it comes to tracking.

            You are getting the same thing at the core, same 3D positional tracking. SAME GAMES for the most part. Roomscale or not, its just a marketing word. Oculus came out and says it does room scale too. Its not something you should be getting hung up over because its all doing teh same over arching thing.

    • chtan

      Not really. You have to contend with multiple USB2/3 cables and ports problem. Also the tracking problem if you setup the camera position incorrectly. There are already a few complains log in Oculus forum about hand spiral out of control during play. I am expecting to see more soon. FOV and distant is the major problem for Touch.
      There is a reason why Oculus delayed Touch for so long until now.

      • ✨EnkrowX✨

        They delayed it to make sure they had a good amount of content at launch.

        Of course you would have a problem if you did something incorrectly. Modern PCs have plenty of ports, I have no idea how you’d use them all up.

  • Konchu

    So yeah both system has plus and minus. But now that touch is out there is a bit more parity, so more games for everyone. I have used both and they are solid, I feel Vive is better in the large spaces and Rift is better in small places.Its easy to get occlusion on the Vive in my bed room setup which is standing room only but plenty in the living room setup. It seems the rift is better in this domain. Though even on my PSVR I find myself turned around so I do like 360 oriented tracking setups better(which the rift can do but like the vive takes special placement) I think inside out tracking may be a winner here we will have to see as it doesn’t have placement constraints Rift and Vive have and less to hook up.

  • Over pizza’d

    Honestly I could not care less about room scale, now I have played on the Vibe when HTC where doing there professional demonstrations and I will admit that I enjoyed the experience, but 2 things put me off.
    Firstly and my main reason against room scale, is I have nowhere to set it up other than a 1m by 1/2m bit of space which is just worthless for anything interactive.
    Secondly no one seems to be making any games for it just experiences.