A recent update to Oculus Home has enabled support for tracking the Rift and Touch with up to four trackers, enabling robust coverage of a roomscale space.

While Oculus doesn’t officially support ‘roomscale’ experiences like those on the HTC Vive, a new update to the Oculus Home software will be a boost for those wanting to use their Rift with Steam’s roomscale games.

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See Also: Including Controllers, Vive and Rift Could be Evenly Matched on Price

Steam supports the Oculus Rift, but due to tracking by only a single ‘Sensor’ (the camera which Oculus uses for tracking)—and lack of VR motion controllers—few of the Steam VR games which technically support the Rift make much sense to play with anything but the Vive.

As Oculus Touch is working its way into the hands of developers and approaching its launch in Q4 of this year, an update to the Oculus Home software now allows users to connect up to four tracking cameras which can simultaneously track the headset and Touch controllers. Since Steam’s support of Oculus relies on the same software, it too can now see and utilize all four trackers.

Above, YouTube channel Reality Check VR demonstrates four trackers in action with Oculus Touch through Steam.

More trackers means more robust tracking through protection against occlusion (where a tracked device loses line of sight to the trackers). It could also mean additional precision; we learned recently that the HTC Vive’s ‘Lighthouse’ tracking system is more accurate when tracked devices are visible to both trackers at the same time. It’s possible that Oculus’ tracking solution gains the same sort of benefit as more trackers are able to track a device.

SEE ALSO
Dungeons & Dragons 'Dungeon Chess' Comes to Oculus Rift and Gear VR
Image Courtesy Doc-OK.org
Image Courtesy Doc-OK.org

The HTC Vive, which supports roomscale VR out of the box, is currently limited to two trackers.

While the ability to use four trackers for roomscale experiences sounds great, the Rift’s trackers need to be connected to the host PC via USB, which means that a setup placing the trackers in all four corners of the space would involve some lengthy cabling—something that’s unlikely to see official endorsement by Oculus, who has focused their product around ease of use and quick setup. Meanwhile, the Vive’s trackers need only be plugged into a power outlet.

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  • Mane Vr

    hope this ends the oculus can’t do roomscale debate let just move on

    • bschuler

      Anything can do room scale with enough new tech added. So yeah, move on people, Oculus CAN do room scale now… ya just need a bunch of new hardware, a lot of long wires and to be a bit careful when using it.

      • Will Cho

        Bunch? as to how many came with Vive…..

        • bschuler

          Yeah, in the end, the systems will look very similar and be priced similar as well. Rift has a few more wires, big deal. The main difference being most Vive users will be room scale, and most Rift users will probably not be. But that is just because Vive came out as room scale, and for the Rift, you have to add it. I think at the end, both the Rift and Vive will be very similar.

      • Harry Hol

        I can do room scale with one sensor and hydra controllers. And it works almost flawlessly.

        • G-man

          And the touch technology is completely different from hydra. If you have to cameras not in opposite corners than as soon as you turn around the cameras can track the back of the headset but they can’t track the controllers through your body like hydra can with magnetic fields

          • Harry Hol

            That’s not the point I was making. My point is: Rift can do room scale reasonably well with one camera and very well with two. The whole idea that Rift’s tracking is worse than Vive’s is ludicrous.

          • bschuler

            But the true fact is, the Rift’s tracking is worse than the Vive’s. The technology differences favor the Vive’s method for accuracy. But if it is a noticeable difference or even a difference worth mentioning is highly in doubt. I think some Rift users will do room scale great but the majority, the not tech savy, will stick to sitting or standing with one camera.

          • G-man

            except its true because the hardware for the rift wasn’t designed to be able to track a large space. you have to get extensions cables, and for any decent sized space they will have to be powered extensions. why do you think touch has been so delayed? they couldn’t get it working well sat down with one camera. you think room scale with two is going to be better? two cameras will make seate/limited standing in 180 degrees work okay. trying to turn around and move around a large space then your body will be constantly blocking the controllers

          • Tad Springer

            Yaaaaaawwwnnnn. Wake me up when all this crap slinging has finished. Tired of it already…

          • G-man

            who is crap slinging? its facts, they dont want a room scale experience, yet people are for some reason trying to say it can do it. so what? none of the games on oculus home will be made for room scale and the tech nthe used isn’t ideal for room scale, these are just facts.

          • Tad Springer

            If Oculus don’t make roomscale games that’s fine as we can just play all the Vive ones through Steam. There’s facts for you. :)

          • Pistol Pete

            So why would they come up with this 4 sensor crap?

          • Konchu

            To be fair on this I remember Palmer stating you could add extra sensors to do room Scale so I don’t think this was a new idea but one that was always on the back burner. I still think Lighthouse is a stronger light weight solution.

          • G-man

            because it will need 4 to work properly in 360, they have realised that it needs at least 2 to do 180 standing/seating with touch properly and they realised some people want to use roomscale, so it needs to work with 4. right now oculus has to play catch up, including offering working roomscale to people who might want it. otherwise they will just buy a vive. or already have.

          • Eagles83

            How do you keep from hitting stuff in your play area without a chaperone system?

          • Harry Hol

            SteamVr chaperone works on Rift. So I have the exact same chaperone as Vive.

          • Eagles83

            Yeah someone else pointed that out. That’s good as I wasn’t aware of that.

          • Pistol Pete

            Wrong. Its not the same. You don’t have a camera on HMD. You can set the Vive’s camera to come on when out of the chaperone bounds.

          • Harry Hol

            You don’t need the HMD camera for chaperone. Chaperone shows a grid in VR, which is the boundary of the safe play area. The camera is not at all needed for it.

          • DougP

            @disqus_9bPoG4k2hQ:disqus
            What @disqus_ezKa5YHJQe:disqus said is correct – chaperone on Rift is not the same as on Vive.
            With Vive you can set the boundary to be video feed of “reality”, so instead of the lines you see what’s actually there.
            It’s quite useful!

          • Harry Hol

            I don’t doubt the Vive cam is useful. But you don’t need it for chaperone. First hand experience here. SteamVR chaperone works perfectly on my Rift.

          • DougP

            I’m not doubting that it works, in some fashion.
            Just clarifying that what Pete wrote was correct – that it’s “not the same”, as chaperone with Vive utilizes the camera to create a “video boundary” of *reality*.

            It would be more accurate to say something along the lines of – “limited chaperone support” or “similar chaperone support for boundaries, video not supported”….rather than what you wrote:
            —-
            SteamVr chaperone works on Rift. So I have the exact same chaperone as Vive.
            —-
            “Exact same” isn’t accurate.

          • Harry Hol

            You are actually now making the camera too important. The idea of chaperone is that it accurately shows you the boundaries of your play space in VR. Being able to see the real world is cosmetic. The main thing is that chaperone prevents you from bumping into walls and furniture. The cam is certainly not doing more than that. It’s not showing you unexpected obstacles like pets or people. So the idea that chaperone on Rift is somehow ‘less’ is completely inaccurate.

          • Konchu

            In multiple ways it is not as good, but that is not to say it cannot have a good/identical or even better experience. It does need more cables and the tech is camera based. Light House calculates simple angles to know location pretty light weight manner. I suspect Oculus will have to use more processor Cycles to find the location as it has to parse video streams. I am confident Oculus will not put out crap but I personally want to see a good tech emerge that is universal I am not sure Lighthouse is that tech but it personal feels like a better more specialized tech option… if Steam will ever open it up like they said they would it could be that option. Something like Sixense may be better too definitely easier setup less cables etc. But I want something soon so when the VR peripherals start coming out I would like to not have to have 30 different tracking solutions.

          • Nashoba Darkwolf

            Your worried about using an extra 1% of your CPU in games that are 75-95% based on GPU and RAM? Unless your running a core 2 duo (which wont even work with VR), I highly doubt it will hinder any gaming.

            I would say the biggest issue is cable management at this point for Rifts second camera.

          • Pistol Pete

            What’s ludicrous is needing 4 sensors for full room-scale.

          • Nashoba Darkwolf

            did you not watch the video at all?
            Rift does room scale with 2. 4 was a test the guy did.

        • JustNiz

          until you turn around.

          • Harry Hol

            Full 360 degrees of motion. I can turn around without losing tracking.

          • Pistol Pete

            Do you already have the Touch controllers? How?

      • Pistol Pete

        Haha. Pretty much this! ^

    • Karl

      Nothing will end that, some people are such huge Vive fangirls that they will always find another reason to say “yeah but…”

      • Smokey_the_Bear

        that goes both ways.

        • Michael Davidson

          agreed

        • Nashoba Darkwolf

          Don’t really see it go bothways. I hear that statement thrown around alot but I see alot of the venom come about 90% from the vive fandom at this point.

      • Toothlover

        speaking of VIVE fangirls :D

    • Sch@dows

      Even in it current “public” configuration (meaning only the headset and 1 camera), the Rift can track object in quite enough space to call it roomscale (when compared to the most common space used with the Vive).

      But that level of precision (loss of tracking if turning your back to the cam, loss of precision when going to far from it) and the lack of propre controller isn’t enough to sell it as roomscale ready.

      All that will change when OculusVR will eventually release those (it would have been better without another cable crossing the room though), but in the meantime people will have to use some tricks.

      • Fredd32

        You do not loose taking when turning your back to the camera, the back strap has tracking too.

        • Sch@dows

          Probably not enough because I found it lacking. It’s ok if you turn around and face your back briefly, but when exploring and staying like this, I experienced several loss of tracking.
          At least that’s my experience, but no doubt it will be greatly improved with a second camera.

          • Nashoba Darkwolf

            I had that same issue until I realized my camera was turned to close to my monitor and not outward enough. Also My chair is higher than the back of my head so that causes issues if I turn my whole chair around. Outside of the chair though, have no problem. Tested of to 12 feet away and after reposition the camera it tracks like a charm.

    • Eagles83

      It can do it but its just not logical to do so unless there is a workaround for the chaperone system that I’m not aware of. Without a chaperone system in play you could walk into stuff or hit your tv when playing. I move around quite a bit when playing on the Vive and without the system I would have destroyed my tv by now.

      • Konchu

        I don’t know if they have stated a version of Chaperone. But I imagine they will have something like this. I wouldnt doubt if steam vr would inject Chaperone for Oculus users as it’s a software solution. Chaperone doesn’t require the camera in the headset, it was off for me by default even. It you can accurately track a space you could inject gridlines to set up a relative space/ safety. Vive may be better for calibrating this but if you look at things like the void ,zero latency and vr arcade they have all been able to accurately map a space with cameras.

      • Mane Vr

        it uses the same chaperone system the vive uses so I guess that fits it and if u don’t believe me go check out reality check vr on you he has the touch and set up chaperone and everything.

        • Eagles83

          Ok cool I wasn’t aware of that. As long as you don’t mind the cables or if you can hide them then it wouldn’t be a bad solution then. One thing would be how would you mount the camera’s?

        • DougP

          I don’t know if calling it “the same system the vive uses” is exactly accurate. With the Vive you can set chaperone to use the built-in camera, so that your *boundary* shows up as “reality” (video pass thru from camera).
          It works amazingly well & not “the same” as the experience with a Rift.

          • Mane Vr

            beside the cam it’s the same system

          • DougP

            Re: “beside the cam it’s the same system”
            so besides being different it’s the same? got it.

          • Mane Vr

            huh it’s running on the vive chaperone system not something like it. The this is a feature of steam vr so any HMD playing a game thru steam vr is using the SAME system vive just has an extra feature.. Smh have u even looked into this at all chaperone isn’t base around the cam and don’t need it to work

          • DougP

            So you could more accurately say:
            “beside the cam it’s the same system….except, it supports only a subset of the functionality”.

            Saying only it’s “the same system” could easily mislead/confuse someone thinking that it includes all the same system’s functionality.

          • Mane Vr

            ok i’ll give u that I was only pointing to the fact it’s the same chaperone software build into steam vr. it’s a feature of steam vr not vive itself. but the cam gives it extra features not seen on the rift.

          • DougP

            Understood. It is good that the chaperone boundaries will work. Very important for VR.
            Honestly, from personal experience, the camera is also a fantastic piece of functionality – either automatically (example chaperone) or manually with button press, seeing the “real world” when you want is helpful – cable management, objects around you, orienting self, etc.
            I wonder if they’ll bring out a camera “add on” for the Rift?

  • Blargh

    meanwhile I’m still waiting for the omni treadmill.

    • Michael Davidson

      And the two or three others that are supposed to be happening this year. I personally think that is a solid locomotion solution, but who knows?

  • J.C.

    So, will the Oculus have some way to set room boundaries so Steam Roomscale games will accept it? That’d be fantastic, it’d just raise the legitimacy of RS games. Do games that expect Roomscale work if there hasn’t been a chaperone boundary set?

    • Jake Tepper

      The chaperone system in steamVR currently works with the Rift already, it just requires some sort of motion controls to map it out. As to weather Oculus themselves plan on creating a chaperone like system, Oculus hasn’t officially confirmed it, but Palmer has stated that it is a simple matter of software.

      • Harry Hol

        Can confirm. SteamVR chaperone works great on my CV1 with hydra.

        • brandon9271

          Where do you put the Hydra base? On your head?

    • iceblast

      You need to take a look at this guys channel RealityCheck VR.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIrC7B8YORE

    • Graham J ⭐️

      I’m not sure legitimacy is the right term here… once most people have roomscale hardware non-roomscale apps will be the exception rather than the norm.

      • yag

        I don’t think there will be exceptions, I bet 360° standing mode will be used a lot when we’ll go full wireless (no problem of space, no teleportation system breaking immersion and limiting gameplay). But there will be also a lot of seated (sims…) and roomscale (for very small 3D environments) experience.

  • I’d sure enjoy another Lighthouse or two for my VIVE. It looses tracking at least 2 or 3 times a day. Often I’ll see one of my hands just drift away…..

    • moodybyname

      I have the same but i don’t understand why it happens – the controllers and headset are always clearly in line of sight of at least one, but most times 2, lighthouses. It got much better when i removed a big mirror and blacked out my window, but it still seems to be an issue occassionally – and cannot be due to it losing tracking due to being out of sight… So i don’t know if more would help?

    • Graham J ⭐️

      They are available to buy.

    • Dredogg

      Check that there’s absolutely nothing reflective around your play area. I had the same issues with my Vive and eliminated it by removing a picture I had on the wall. It had a slightly shiny surface but it was enough to disrupt the tracking. Since removing it I never have tracking issues.

    • DougP

      Agree with the other replies.
      I’ve purchased just about all of the major titles for the Vive & have NEVER had this happen once.
      Check out your environment some something reflective, or even blocking signal, as it’s either that or you might even have defective hardware.
      I’m guessing you’ve done firmware updates?

  • Peter S

    All that cabling, 4 more USB ports and a play area the size of a postage stamp

    • Harry Hol

      Nonsense. I have a 3×3 meter room scale play space with rift and hydra, with one sensor. Limit of my space is the cables of the hydra, not tracking range.

      Two sensors and touch can track an even larger space.

      • Graham J ⭐️

        That’s great for all 5 people that have hydras ;)

        • yag

          We were a lot to buy an Hydra just for HLVR. Can’t wait to play it again..

      • JustNiz

        …just not as accurately as the Vive.

        • Nashoba Darkwolf

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dnN6ORLmExo

          You should read more then. The rift tracks as good as the vive. Please stop posting bullshit.

          • JustNiz
          • Nashoba Darkwolf

            “However, just because the Vive Wands have the edge here does not mean
            that Touch is severely lacking in this respect. I have yet to experience
            any occlusion, poor collision detection, or significant jutter while
            using either controller.”

            There is no scientific measurement done yet to prove your claim. Mere opinions of a game journalist/s does not compare to the words of developers saying both are the same in respect to tracking. The last paragraph also states he has yet to experience any issues with the above.

            FYI some of the best engineers follow Occam’s Razor. The lighthouses and the tracking system vive went with is quite the complicated contraption. It works but it is not as simple as the Rifts.

          • JustNiz

            You need to take your very large rift fanboi hat off. I didn’t say the Rift tracking is severely lacking, I just said you are wrong that it is as good as the Vive.
            and yes scientific analysis has been done:
            http://doc-ok.org/?p=1478
            Also for what its worth I’m a developer and I can tell you there’s nothing magic about opinions just because they come from developers.
            Vive tracking is really not much more complicated, The rift tracking software is actually quite a complicated algorithm, but the Vive just does more work in hardware than rift does (which is also better because it puts less load on the PC’s CPU). The vive integrates data using 2 reference points using coherent light (laser) vs. the Rifts single camera using normal light (made up of a broad spectrum so it expands out much more quickly making it much less accurate as a point source). And obviously a camera also has a limitation of a finite number of pixels so relatively low resolution for accurate tracking but lets not get into that whole discussion here. So the Vive method inherently has more accuracy. Simple does not automatically equal better. (Invoking Occams Razor has been elevated to an almost magical status that it just doesn’t deserve, and usually gets invoked inapproriately, like here). In fact simple often equals worse. For example GPS is a freaking complicated system but it’s waaaay more accurate than a compass and a map.

          • Will Cho

            The Vive’s lighthouse tracking system allows for sub-millimeter object detections. I do not know Oculus Touch’s official specs in this regard (and probably won’t until it is more widly distributed) but I have noticed a slight advantage for the Vive in terms of hand tracking precision.

            I didn’t know means it’s worse?

            Did they try it with 4 sensors?

            More costly? That didn’t hurt vive.

            By the way, I own both Rift and Vive. Prefer Rift.

          • iceblast

            The Rift is also sub-millimeter tracking. There is very little difference between the Rift and Vive when it comes to tracking, and there are plenty of videos showing, that the Rift gives a great room scale with motion controllers experience to players.

    • Tad Springer

      Fanboy alert!! ;)

    • edge

      Lies.

  • iceblast

    I think everyone should take a look at this guys channel RealityCheck VR.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dnN6ORLmExo

    • Tad Springer

      His channel is great! It’s my new favourite youtube channel!

  • usherjerksoffsonyfanboys

    Thats cool and all, but Oculus is being too slow with updates, I’m getting the Vive next week. Maybe in the future when everything is said and done, I’ll be able to comparison with Vive and Oculus Gen 2. Oculus and Vive are pretty much the same thing, I just really like Valve, hopefully Portal 3 is coming for the Vive.

  • Graham J ⭐️

    Didn’t this come out a couple weeks ago?

    Anyway it’s good that the Rift will finally support this but the problem is that devs will not be able to assume users have the extra gear. Not so much an issue on Steam where there are also Vive owners ready for roomscale, but I imagine roomscale games will be fewer on the Oculus store.

    • iceblast

      I don’t think it’s that overly hard to add Touch support to a game, and I believe that most users will be getting the Touch controllers as fast as they can get their hands on them.

      Also, the number of users that will be using the Touch will continue to grow from the point that Touch is released.

      If Oculus is supporting 4 cameras, then it’s a good chance that Roomscale is something they also plan to support. Because a 180 degree system, doesn’t need 4 cameras.

      Honestly though, 2 cameras does the job just fine. Check out RealityCheck VR channel on youtube, and see for yourself.

      • J.C.

        It won’t be overly difficult to add Touch support *for games that are already built for roomscale*. Games built JUST for gamepads would need their entire interface rebuilt. Game balance would have to be redone, as the human body can’t move as fast as gamepad games can move an avatar.

        • iceblast

          You’re talking about older games. Only a few of those might be made to work with the Touch controllers, but Oculus has a whole slew of roomscale games coming out with Touch.

          I would agree about the human part if you were talking about a mouse, but gamepads turn speed isn’t that fast, a human can move faster than that. Locomotion might be a issue, but I don’t think the difference is to great. VR games, are still built for the human mind to handle.

          Games made purely for the Gamepad for VR, aren’t likely to be made after Touch, and Touch does come with Thumbsticks, like a gamepad if needed.

  • blueredgreenyellow

    Just wanted to bring up that when I used a 3.0 usb extension cable for one of my rift sencors the system bugged out and couldint read the sensor firmware number. Folowed by other horrible things. Just a warning for any one planing to use usb extension cables.

    Tho I had no problem using the extension on the HMD.
    It most likely has somthing to do with not all 3.0 extension cables being equal.

    • iceblast

      There are some recommend extension cables out there. If you go to RealityCheck VR, he talks about the cables he’s using, and what works and what doesn’t.

      I believe it’s this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ew3mNuuYSiE

      • AndyP

        Oculus ship extra sensors with USB 2.0 active extension cables (yes, two point 0, not 3.0). The key point is that they are ACTIVE or will not work; the make, makes no difference. I’ve tried with 2 sensors and suffered occlusion, 3 works perfectly. I bought 4 just to be obsessive and can’t see a difference (other than symmetry!). 3D printed ceiling sensor mounts are great and can be picked up on EBay (UK) – you unscrew the top of the sensor with these and they are much smaller/better than those in this video (he could make better use of that 3D printer). Agree that 3M (~10ft) HDMI cables are the limit, 5M didn’t work. People are criticising because you need another sensor, it costs £79 (after e.g. £600 on a GPU!) – but I don’t care because I have a holodeck in my garden :o)

  • Ian Shook

    I feel like Oculus should have always been ‘open’ to room scale. I feel like they haven’t committed to it. They’ve said their product isn’t geared towards it but “can” do it. Which I agree, it can do it. But Vive is committed to it, and so are developers. Getting Vive cameras set up is one thing. But now USB too? Why even bother? especially with Oculus games made for sitting. It’s great that it works (I didn’t know it didn’t before, anyway) but It’s sort of like. “yep, great” BTW I have a Rift and Vive.

    • JustNiz

      Oculus really aren’t committed to roomscale. They’re still telling developers that they only need to track to 180 degrees.

  • LJR

    To the headset experts….. if you would put a high-grade (tactical or navigation grade) inertial measurement unit (IMU) in the headset….would you get rid of the need for these outside sensors used by Oculus and HTC?

    • sntxrrr

      I think the clou is in the name. An IMU measures inertia and positional measurements would be a derivative, relative and indirect. I believe they are reliant on the earth magnetic field (someone correct me if i’m wrong) and therefore require very precise calibration and re-calibration if used for position, contrary to just measuring acceleration.
      Inside-out camera tracking might work but doesn’t (yet) offer the sub-milimeter precision required for VR and tracking quality would be dependent on the surroundings (a beach with a clear sky would offer very little to track). It works pretty well for MS Hololens indoor, but AR can do with less precision.

      • yag

        Yeah, the involved heavy calculation has always bee a problem with this kind of tracking (for the speed and precision we need, at least). Can’t wait to see these new VPUs babys…

    • Thoemse

      It’s been tried and allways led to some drift.

    • JustNiz

      The vive also has IMUs. It uses IMUs for instantaneous movement updates and the lasers to continuously “re-center” the IMUs. Thats how the Vive detects/produces tracking data a lot faster than the 60hz/120hz laser sweep of the lighthouses, and why its faster/more accurate than the Rift.

  • Dream

    Oculus is still alive?

  • Pistol Pete

    I’m confused by what they describe as robust? Does this mean the Rift can do the same Roomscale as the Vive, but needs 4 sensors instead of 2?

    • Ombra Alberto

      No! 2 for roomscale. 4 to expand roomscale volume.

      • Pistol Pete

        What the heck is “expanded Roomscale”??? From what I read here it stated “expanded Roomscale” protects from occlusion. Aka-what the Vive already does with 2 sensors.

        • Ombra Alberto

          roomscale CV1 works perfectly with two sensors. Then believe whatever you like.

        • Tad Springer

          You can get occlusion on the Vive if you face one sensor and move one controller behind the other. Same happens on Oculus too. This is just basic physics and UploadVR/RoadtoVR etc all say the same. The 4 sensors is just an option for if you want to ensure this doesn’t happen as unless you lie on your controller you can’t hide it from at least 1 camera. Essentially it’s not needed and is overkill but my guess is that if Oculus are going to say they will do room scale they want to ensure they at least offer an option where it’s impossible to get any occlusion, that can’t be done on Rift or Vive with just 2 sensors (although on both it’s probably 99% accurate with 2 sensors).

          • Pistol Pete

            I tested the occlusion of the Vive like you stated with one controller in from or another directly in front of the HMD and directly facing the lighthouse sensor. At first there was zero visual occlusions, moving the controllers back and forth to try to get occlusion. Then held both controllers very still directly in the perfect spot in a line in front of my face and saw a glitch of occlusions. But the occlusion area was so tiny small, maybe 1/4 inch, when holding the controllers still, it is 99.99999999% never possible to see this in a game in real movement. Even if you did only for a 1/4inch glitch?

            So the question is if Oculus has the same extremely tiny occlusion area, why would they add 2 more sensors for that only 0.00000001% chance of anyone ever noticing it? Doesn’t sound logical does it.

          • Tad Springer

            Nope, I agree with you there. The devs I’ve heard of that have tried it all say in reality it’s overkill and not needed.

    • Tad Springer

      I’m seriously wondering if you’re just here to troll now or if you’ve just not read up on this or watched the video. lol ;)