While Oculus has been drumming up its soon to launch Touch VR controller for many months now, the company doesn’t expect motion input to supersede the gamepad gameplay that Rift users are using today.

The introduction of an Xbox One gamepad as the default input device for the Oculus Rift at launch came as a surprise to many, especially given prior comments from the company’s founder singling out the gamepad as a poor choice for VR input. Meanwhile, the HTC Vive, which launched with motion controls in the box, has garnered praise for its immersive input. Combined with Oculus’ announcement of Touch all the way back in 2015, Rift users have been very eager to get their hands into virtual reality. But that doesn’t mean VR titles designed for gamepads will go the wayside, says Oculus.

See Also: Latest Version of Touch has Better Tracking & Longer Range, Says Oculus
See Also: Latest Version of Touch has Better Tracking & Longer Range, Says Oculus

Speaking with Road to VR at Gamescom 2016 last month, Jason Rubin, Head of Content at Oculus said that the company doesn’t expect gamepads to disappear from VR once Touch controllers hits the market.

“…we’re really strong proponents of the gamepad. We think there are some types of games that play incredibly well with gamepads, and we don’t believe gamepads are going away,” Rubin said. “There are developers that want us to continue shipping a gamepad [in the box with the Oculus Rift headset]. Whether or not we continue forever or just a small amount of time is undecided and unannounced, but gamepads have a valid place in the ecosystem.”

SEE ALSO
HalfDive VR Headset Kickstarter Cancelled Due to Niche Appeal, Manufacturing Issues

Rubin pointed to the apparent success of gamepad-only titles found on the Oculus Home platform, and says he remains skeptical of locking into a sort of standardized VR input at this stage in the ecosystem.

“We don’t share the belief that ‘if it’s a gamepad, it’s an atrocity and not a VR title’, and the proof of that is the ratings consumers are giving the games that we have out right now. In the long run it’s hard to say what the final control spec will be, or if there will be a final control spec,” he said.

oculus-rift-cv1-e3-2015-ben-lang

He elaborated on what he called “VR purists,” and suggested that some were applying a double-standard to VR games designed for the gamepad, saying that many of the people hating on games lacking motion controls also wanted to play them themselves.

“There are VR purists that believe ‘if it doesn’t have motion controls, it isn’t VR’. I happen to not agree with that, and I don’t think Oculus agrees with that. Interestingly, many of the same people are dying to play our titles brought out on gamepad. They’re extremely vocal about [them],” Rubin said. “So you really can’t have it both ways. Titles that we brought out are some of the best reviewed, most full titles out there, and at the same time there’s a small population that believes VR has to be a certain amount of purity. VR is much broader, and we think the audience is broader, and we think what VR represents is much broader than some other people.”

SEE ALSO
'Zenith: The Last City' Review-in-progress – The Latest Shot at Making a VRMMO a Reality
Founder reveals the Oculus Touch 'Half Moon' Prototype in 2015 | Photo courtesy Oculus
See Also: Oculus Explains Why They Didn’t Launch Touch with the Rift (Even Though They “Could Have”)

Rubin went on to point to the company’s work with Samsung to launch Gear VR—which is a relatively affordable VR headset compared to the likes of high-priced units like the Rift and Vive—as an exemplar of the company’s “broader” approach to VR.

Oculus says Touch will launch in Q4 of this year, but has yet to announce a price of specific date. We’re expecting to hear more on Touch at the Oculus Connect developer conference in October.


Additional reporting by Scott Hayden

This article may contain affiliate links. If you click an affiliate link and buy a product we may receive a small commission which helps support the publication. See here for more information.


  • bschuler

    Gamepad as a controller doesn’t make it not VR. Being seated itself doesn’t make it not VR. But being seated, while in VR your standing, walking, running, or anything not seated, makes it not VR. There is nothing wrong with a top down scroller with a controller.. but that simply isn’t VR either. Oculus, and many other people, tend to forget that VR stands for Virtual Reality.

    • draez

      I disagree, some games work better with a controller…even in vr.

      • Peter S

        examples?

        • draez

          Chronos, Ashwar 2, Blaze rush, edge of nowhere, radial g, darkness, defense grid 2, herobound,one other where you lead tactical armies on a virtual table top against other players or pc but I can’t remember its name offhand.
          There are others that are only available on the Rift that I won’t mention. There are even more that are not listed in the store by new developers that I’m not mentioning. This list is just for those that are full games I’ve played or own and not glorified demos or unfinished. Basically, they’re polished retail games.
          Basically anything that’s arcadish or 3rd person.

          • bschuler

            But are you really in Virtual Reality or just playing a game with an invisible controller? I hate the term VR being used for anything you need a HMD for. To me, it’s kind of like saying your in space right now.. because Earth is in space, so technically.. so are you. I’m not saying those games don’t play better with a controller (I can’t wait for tracked X-box controllers myself).. just saying even though you need a VR headset to play them, they are not true VR, as you are not virtually real in them at all and can’t physically interact at all. They are just 2D games, repacked for VR HMDs.

          • draez

            I see where you’re coming from. So, to me vr is something that completely envelops you. Something that gives me perspective of the game world as being around me but that doesn’t necessarily need me to interact with it physically in order to experiemce it.
            If you need to physically interact with everything in that world and have it react to your physical presence, then no these are not your definition of vr.

            You do feel like you’re in that games universe but you don’t interact with them as you would in real life with some exceptions.

            The only ones that do fit your definition are the racing/flying games because you are in a cockpit and therefore as in real life would only have physical interactions with a HOTAS or steering wheel. Those work as they would in real life so they fit your definition of VR but that’s because they are governed by those set of limiting rules to begin with, if you get what I’m saying.

            Otherwise the other non cockpit games add more through the inclusion of vr as you are surrounded by their world but they could just as easily be traditional 2d games.

            In short, for now cockpit seated experiences is where it shines most for your definition of vr.

            Until we get vr with true haptic feedback I suspect that HTC Vive and Oculus Touch would both fail your definition of true vr immersion. I’m not sure if the latter has haptic touch per finger but it doesn’t look like it will.

            Thanks for keeping it civil

          • polysix

            Buddy that’s not VR, that’s 3D gaming in a HMD. One day, when you quit being such a guilable facebook fanatic, you’ll realise exactly what we’ve all been saying on this page. Tradtional gaming (even IN an immersive wrap around HMD style) is always viable, but it’s NOT fucking VR. Got it? And the problem with that is? That oculus are intent on setting GIMMICK VR as the STANDARD VR, which will hurt perception to both hardcore VR nuts like us AND general consumers who will just see it as yet another gimmick like 3DTV (as some do see it).

            VR isn’t gamepad, it’s that simple. For every game that plays in VR with a gamepad there IS a better alternative input possibility that truly FEELS like VR (just like in reality where you DRIVE a car with your hands on a wheel for example) and if there isn’t anything better than the gamepad for that game? There’s the clue, it’s NOT a fucking VR game!!. Hope you get that through your head and stop apologizing for fucking facebook. They are laughing at you dumb sheep almost as much as we real VR experts are.

          • draez
          • draez

            Go look on YouTube for people that own or have tried both. They will tell you that the oculus is a better system by far. That’s not me saying it, that’s them.

            You are the worst kind of fan boy there is. Please go away troll.

            Vr means virtual reality. Right now that definition means that you’re somewhere that totally encompassespecially your reality that’s not this reality. Any vr games that do fit that definition which seated games do as long as it’s meant to be a seated experience
            You theirs around Facebook like it’s an insult. They’re just the company that bought oculus,so what? Who cares who owns oculus?
            Are you really trying to say that who owns a system defines their product?
            HTC is in the shithole financially. Dies that mean the vive is shit? No.
            You’re like a child. You and that other moron.
            I linked a video in reply to one of your moronic responses…not made by me. Go take a look and get back to me. See if you can respond without going into a tantrum.

          • draez

            So teleporting around a game is vr to you because even on the vive you have to do it to get around. By that definition then vive is not vr either. Teleporting breaks the immersion. You go from walking in roomscale a few feet to a bunny hop.
            Vr broken at that point.
            So you must hate that too. Right?

  • RipVoid

    After initially positioning itself as the premier VR expierience, Oculus now misses no opportunity to dumb it down under the guise of ‘thats what people want.’

    • Get Schwifty!

      Humorous that people are again missing the point here… some game types work better with a pad device than say a Touch style controller _today_. Seated arcade style games virtually demand a pad to play effectively because people have yet to adopt and convert to using pads. The point Oculus made is that for a more “pure VR” experience the pads don’t make sense… however for games that traditionally use a pad, now moved to a VR experience still make best use of one. Now, down the line ( a few years) Touch-style controllers will be the norm (yes, Vive wands will not last long I predict) and people will begin doing what they can do with a pad through gestures, etc. The fact the Touch is sort of a Gamepad split in two tells you either will work ultimately. What does concern me is that it might point to a higher price tag than the $150 people are expecting, so they may wish to support the pads for some time.

      They are not dumbing down, they are making statements about how they perceive the market will operate over time. Given the effort to create a better controller (Touch), their own chaperon system and always having supported (but underestimated the market reaction to room-scale), it’s clear they committed to an intense VR experience in the best possible way.

      • RipVoid

        Yes, humorous how some are still missing the point.

        “…they are making statements about how they perceive the market will operate over time…” by dumbing down their system, hoping for main stream appeal, and abandoning the early adopter VR enthusiast that bought into their original hype. That gamer is ready _today_ (not in a few years) for motion control and room scale and the games that use them.

        The problem is that PSVR and Daydream are much better positioned to capture the market you talk about because they are much cheaper. If Rift becomes an Xbox accessory then maybe it can compete.

      • DougP

        Does that Facebook Kool-Aid you’re drinking come in sugar free?

        Humorous YOU are missing the point here.
        People, who’ve experienced immsersive VR, want their “hands in games”.
        Also –
        For traditional seated games, hardly any hardcore PC gamers want 10yo gaming pads, preferring the likes of: mouse+keyboard, hotas for flight/space sim, steering wheels. Ancient gamepad tech doesn’t replace those.

        So here’s the deal –
        For those who WANT to use an xbox controller, they’ve already got one, fine.
        For those who buy immersive VR experience – they want that supported.
        And… if your game was designed around traditional *input* (analogue stick & some buttons/triggers), you can just implement button/pad mapping to the likes of the Vive controller.

        Bundling the xbox controller was a mistake. Plain & simple.

        I wish the Facebook fanboys would quit doing these mental gymnastics trying to make excuses for it. Just admit it & move one. Hope that Touch coming out will go a long ways towards fixing it (although devs will be plagued with decision of designing for a majority of users or an unknown/minority with Touch).

        • Get Schwifty!

          I notice you like to throw pejoratives around a lot, but lets see what they said vs. your points here (they cover your Ripvoids as well)

          “People, who’ve experienced immsersive VR, want their “hands in games””

          True if the game makes sense for it, not all VR experiences currently warrant this kind of play style, thats part of Oculus’ point.

          “For traditional seated games, hardly any hardcore PC gamers want…”

          You don’t define what this is anymore than anyone, BUT not everyone who buys a VR device is intent upon hardcore play, in fact the majority will not. You’re defining ownership of a PC and Vive/Rift as a signal of hardcore and not more casual. I (and Oculus’ market research) says otherwise.

          “For those who WANT to use an xbox controller, they’ve already got one, fine”

          Nope, definitely not true, maybe if you are 20-30 maybe. Many, many older players grew up on PCs before console came back into style and didn’t ever have a need for controller for a console they didn’t own.

          “Bundling the xbox controller was a mistake. Plain & simple.”

          Now, this is a bit silly. Clearly they benefit by NOT putting one in to lower the overall price, but they looked at the market and saw a reason for it (and don’t kid yourself they make any money for them or MS off of them). See my point above for why they opted to put it in for one aspect in the decision, and, had they not put something in while the Touch is being readied they would have put up with nothing but criticisms and comparisons about not even having controllers. Like someone pointed out, if it bothers someone that much it has one, sell it.

          “I wish the Facebook fanboys would quit doing these mental gymnastics trying to make excuses for it. Just admit it & move one. ”

          Again with the pejoratives. You clearly have a beef against them by your tone, and any move they make you criticize. FWIW, the situation of designing for what is about a current 2:1 difference in sales (do some reading, it’s about that currently) is not much of a problem, and given the very low numbers for either platform currently, in a year the situation could easily be 50/50 or even see a flip to Oculus dominance with the better controller design.

          What is weird is why the hell does anyone here even care, they are coming out with a better design for a controller and everything else a purist wants, you should be happy. That they say they don’t see the pads being utterly obsolete and may bundle them for a limited time longer should not cause so much anger in your posts.

          Personally I doubt they will incorporate the controller for long, they have always indicated it was a temporary inclusion until the Touch was released and eventually bundled. Their point is simple but I guess with blood in your eyes its hard to see: its a temporary situation and they believe that some games will play better with them until game design adapts to using newer controllers designed for specifically for VR, so they are simply acknowledging their continued role which includes people using other devices like the Gears which are part of the Oculus family. It’s not all about the hardcore PC market ;)

          • DougP

            Re: “immsersive VR” – motion controls
            I was talking about the most immersive VR experiences.
            For those who want THAT – they want their hands/arms in the game.
            Go read the vast majority of reviews, including professional game reviewers – you’ll see people describing having motion control input as a “game changer”, what makes VR “truly immersive”.
            So what I said is true – for those who want the most immersive experience, who are used to it now, want motion control input.

            Re: “BUT not everyone who buys a VR device is intent upon hardcore play”
            You why are you responding to my point about hardcore gamers? You’re contradicting yourself.

            Re: “”Bundling the xbox controller was a mistake. Plain & simple.” Now, this is a bit silly.
            Funny how you won’t admit it was a mistake & then in your closing comment you admit not including motion control was just a “stop gap” move.

            Re: “Facebook fanboys would quit doing these mental gymnastics trying to make excuses for it. Just admit it & move one.” Again with the pejoratives.
            pejoratives – I don’t think that word means what you think it means.
            Or do you think that there is no such thing (proper use of term) as “fanboy”?
            I consider it to mean someone who is product/brand-loyal to the point of being blinded to fact.
            I specifically called out that I see “mental gymnastics”, that actually appear to be quite painful from the 180-degree twists & turns often made.
            Now if I’d said – “Facebook fan who’s ugly/stupid/an ass” – that would be “again with pejoratives”. But it’s not what I wrote.

            Re: “they are coming out with a better design for a controller and everything else a purist wants,”
            Hehe….see, there’s an example. Your making a silly statement like that, I could label you a “fanboy” & it would just be calling out what’s obvious & not a pejorative.
            “everything a puris wants” – hehe, that’s funny.

            Re: “For those who WANT to use an xbox controller, they’ve already got one, fine” Nope, definitely not true
            Again, you’re being ridiculous.
            So you don’t think that those gamers that WANT to game with an xbox controller already have one?!
            Are you joking/trolling or being intentionally obtuse?
            Xbox controllers, in their current form&function, have been around for ~15yrs now. Gamers have had plenty of time to decide if that’s their “input device of choice”.
            So for non-traditional gamers, if that’s what you’re arguing, new to VR (VR-only) – do THEY want xbox controller?!
            Heck not, not unless they have NO CHOICE.
            I’ve put non-gamers into VR. They don’t have the physical memory of controllers. They don’t know where A/B button & bumper buttons are!
            Now tell them, “reach behind your head”, “swing your arm”, “pull your hand to face”, or as simple as “pull the trigger” – they can understand that.
            On top of that – with the motion controllers (Vive’s or Touch) these “new to gaming gamers” can SEE the controllers!
            Again, if you’re arguing “new” gamers want: 1) have a controller they can’t see (to even *learn*) 2) have to memorize A/B X/Y button & bumper L1 & L2 …. you’re completely fulling yourself. Or…as I said, intentionally being obtuse to defend facebook ( & again – that’s not a pejorative, it’s proper use of the language/term ).

            Re: “I guess with blood in your eyes its hard to see”
            With Facebook fanboyism blindg you, you can’t register the valid points I’ve made.
            You really think that developers want to:
            1) limit their audience – fragemented not knowing if their customers (Rift owners) will have a given input device or not?
            2) go through a tremendous amount of effort (if not faced with impossibility) of try to design a game/engine around 2x incredibly different input methods, so as to be able to seel to all users?
            Seriously?! See, that’s mental gymnastics you’d have to go through to answer YES. And… THAT is exactly what Facebook did by shipping with 1 controller & then switching to a totally different one (that they should’ve shipped with to begin with – my point earlier).

            It’s fine to admit to yourself, “I’m a Rift fan & I’ll excuse their mistakes & wait patiently until they ‘get better’ / ‘catch up'”. Leave it at that & don’t put your brain through these gymnastics where you’ll just wind up hurting yourself.

          • draez

            The problem with people like DogeePee is that they can’t fathom owning *gasp* both. They have to choose a side and try to convince everyone that their purchase is justified.
            It’s a product. You can have more than one type or just the one you like best.
            Conspiracy theorists are everywhere these days.

            #EarthIsFlat #MoonLandingWasStaged

  • draez

    To me, nothing in vr hit me like elite dangerous. When I first put on the rift and started that up. It was something completely different than anything I’ve tried before…and I had a personal tour of HoloLens along with the rift and the vive.
    Nothing matched going into the star port the first time.. the sense of scale and detail feels so on point on the rift.
    My friend has a vive and it’s great for roomscale stuff but for seated experiences of any sort, the rift just gets it right. Something about the vive optics are fuzzier/screen door and for some reason the scale of things seem off.
    I agree that oculus keeps messing with its pr though. I don’t know what they are thinking.

    • DougP

      The article is about Touch vs traditional controller.

      You’re not suggesting that your dream of playing Elite in VR is 10yo+ console controller, are you?
      Seriously, if you like space/flight sim – look at HOTAS.

      • draez

        OK, first the xbox one controller is not even 3 years old. Second, I already went out and bought a HOTAS. In fact the same used in elite dangerous and use that to play elite dangerous. Third, and most importantly, I said some games work fine with game pads in vr,better than wands waving around in the air. Those games would be driving and cockpit type games. Not all vr games work best with wands like vive has.
        Sometimes simple is better, especially in seated experiences – unless you buy something specific to that experience like a HOTAS or steering wheel but then again changing that per type of game is a bit much sometimes too.
        Gamepads get the job done as an all around device. Not better, not worse, just another option to get you there.

        BTW, HOTAS with elite = awesome

        • DougP

          What I meant by 10yo+ is the tech/design.
          I mean the XBone controller is basically the same, as far as input control, as the X360, which is really the same as the original xbox controller.

          I want to get HOTAS eventually, once I get around to some seated (cockpit) VR gaming.
          Perhaps eventually the addiction to standing+room-scale will lessen, but it’s been going on strong now for me for months now. Hard to sit down & lose sight (& interactivity) of my hands/arms in games.

          Once I go HOTAS, I’m also considering the likes of the RotoVR chair, for more immersive+seated experience.
          To me that seems like the idea situation for cockpit type seated gaming. Side benefit is getting back quite a bit of the lost immersion from standing/moving.
          The idea of feeling the *turns* in space/flight sim or driving sounds amazing.

          Have you checked out Roto VR chair?

          • brandon9271

            The gamepad really hasn’t changed much since the original dual analog for Sony Playstation in 1997. So a 20 year old gaming peripheral being part of “cutting edge” VR does seem odd to me as well.

          • DougP

            Good point. I was probably being a bit generous with that 10yo comment. ;)

            Back in the day, when Luckey was being honest, he said as much: (basically) “the traditional gamepad input is crap for VR”.
            I’m glad they’re fixing this with the Touch (finally) coming out.
            But to pretend that shipping w/xbox controller was a great thing, the best thing!, is just silly.

            It also sucks for developers, for the foreseeable future, knowing that they have to target one or the other, until there’s a vast majority of Rift owners who have Touch.

            My recommendation: get Touch out, be happy about it, & move forward. And…stop making excuses & pretending xbox gamepad was a “good thing” for the launch of this modern VR industry.

          • brandon9271

            Agreed. Touch will do everything a gamepad will do. Mapping the analog sticks and button from Touch to gamepad games is a trivial thing. Being able to track them and see your virtual hands sitting in your lap could add to the immersion of some games

  • Cl

    “Rubin pointed to the apparent success of gamepad-only titles found on the Oculus Home platform, and says he remains skeptical of locking into a sort of standardized VR input at this stage in the ecosystem.”

    Hold on. Isnt this only true because the oculus touch isnt available right now? The only option in the oculus store is a gamepad? Vive is the only one with motion controls right now and they arent officially allowed in oculus store still? So why would you even make reasoning like that? If im wrong about something let me know please.

    I feel like this just has something to do with competing with vive since they dont come with gamepads.

    • draez

      No, you can use 3rd party motion controls on oculus. Remember this is on a pc. You can mix and match so long as the device is supported.

      • DougP

        3rd party controls –
        Yeah, supporting fragmented tech is a good thing.

        Why do I picture draez at his desk, emailing developers asking for support, looking like this:

        • draez

          DoggeePee,
          Fragmented tech is having vive with their controllers and oculus with their’s. The 3rd party controllers I’ve seen work on both. That’s not fragmentation, that’s choice.

          Nice picture of a Nintendo oven mitt? Someone knows how to do a Google search. Your parents must be so proud.

          • DougP

            Hehe…you are such a Facebook-apologist. Does The Zuck give you a dollar every time you post PR-damage-control BS for him?

            And, wow – you don’t even know what fragmentation means?! No wonder this doesn’t bother you.

            Howz that “mix’n & match’n” working with your power-mit?
            Keep mailing the devs, they’ll build-in support for you one day.

          • draez

            Sad, so sad.
            Please stop using your mom’s pc.she’s going to get mad.
            I’m just concerned for you at this point. I don’t want you to get punished.
            Last time that happened your sock puppets wouldn’t talk to you anymore and they’re the only friends you have left.

          • DougP

            Re: “stop using your mom’s pc”
            dregs, I didn’t want to have to tell you this, but now you’ve wrangled it out of me.
            It’s YOUR mom’s PC that I’m using!

            Fortunately she’s “busy” so she can’t read that I’m telling you this.

            Crawl back under your bridge little troll. The Zuck’s waiting for you there & requires your services.

          • draez

            LOL

          • DougP

            And now to watch dregs collapse into a puddle of tears – let’s hear “Luckey’s tale”:
            [“Finish him!”]
            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQUYbm_7hsA

          • DougP

            More apologists need to watch this video. Great to hear it from Luckey’s mouth.

          • Dobba

            You two need to get a room together and use each other as power gloves.

          • draez

            It’s funny that you yourself pointed to a HOTAS and steering wheel as the best device for seated experiences in vr not hand controls, did you not? Note your comment about it is still on this comment board.
            Are you now saying that something like the vive wand is better than a HOTAS or steering wheel?
            If you are then you’ve contradicted yourself from before.
            If you are saying that a HOTAS or steering wheel is only better for games that suit it….then that’s what a game pad in vr is good for too so you are again contradicting yourself.

            Add to that some people might not have the cash to buy a HOTAS and/or steering wheel right away and suddenly having an all around controller like the gamepad until you do have enough cash to buy them suddenly isn’t such a bad proposition.
            You are a walking contradiction on what you yourself said in this very comment board. At best you are naive and can’t see all side of a value add proposition, at worst- you’re a troll,plain and simple.

          • DougP

            Oooh…”mic dropped” – insta-win!

            What’s SAD is that you are such Facebook apologist that you put yourself through those painful mental gymnastics. The cognitive dissonance must hurt your brain.

            I’d understand if you were just getting paid for these asinine posts, but your earnestness could almost convince one that you actually *believe* what you’re writing.

            Re: “something like the vive wand is better than a HOTAS or steering wheel?”

            You mention my point(s) about HOTAS & then write THIS?!

            Seriously consider getting back on your meds, for the sake of the internet.

            Cockpit sim –

            Exactly my point earlier, that HOTAS would be more appropriate for those who just wanted “seated” cockpit sim experiences.

            Heck, if all I was interested in was seated+cockpit sim experience I don’t think I’d waste my time with VR hmd.

            Buy yourself several high-rest displays & arrange in semi-circle around you. You’d get way better visuals!

            Sorry chump, no contradiction there.

            No as for truly immersive, best, VR experiences – motion controllers is the way to go. I can’t believe you’re still arguing an xbox controller is the “future of VR” & was a good idea.

            Again, back to my earlier point/posts, for those who WANT to use an xbox controller (ex console kiddies?), they already HAVE one.

            Foisting ancient console tech onto PC gamers wanting “modern VR” was a terrible mistake.

            Re: “having an all around controller like the gamepad until you do have enough cash”
            Yeah, that’s right. So many people spending the $ on a high-end rig capable of even running modern VR are so cash strapped that the meager (by comparison) difference in cost between an xbox controller (again-if they want, they already own….but Oculus blessed them with a *second*?!) would be the deal breaker.

            Seriously, you’re embarrassing yourself with these excuses & apologies. If you don’t already work for Facebook’s PR/damage control department, these rambling posts aren’t going to land you that job.

          • draez

            You messed up and you aren’t even man enough to admit it. Go crawl away. We’re done here.

          • DougP

            Re: “You messed up”
            True, but the only messing up I did was overestimating your reading comprehension & ability to reason.

            I’m done try to explain things to you. Can’t find small enough words that you’d understand.

            Reminds me of this:

          • polysix

            No, YOU are done here. You are alone in your fucked up, naive opinion and don’t actually give a fuck about what’s good for VR like we do. So how about YOU fuck off back to facebook and help them make even more cash off the naive. Dear god you utter prick!

          • draez

            I see your buddy gave you an instant thumbs up. That’s sweet. You two should meet and thumb each other up all night.

          • DougP

            P.S.
            ….And… IF Facebook had shipped the Rift with a HOTAS I’d consider THAT a mistake as well.

          • polysix

            “mic dropped”

            Lol the only thing you’ve dropped is your pants, and bent over for facebook. Chump!

          • draez

            thumbs up for you

          • DiGiCT Ltd

            Hahaha those guys are the best comedians of 2016 !

            And still people support those clowns.
            They even cant remember what they said or just like to change their mind all the time.
            THX for that video let it be a lesson to all of us.

          • polysix

            I know, it’s shocking isn’t it?

            That video has been doing the rounds for MONTHS, all over reddit, the official forum etc, and STILL the oculus fuck-boys defend it or make excuses. IT IS THERE bold as anything in the light of day, the man is on record, and Palmer knows his shit about VR (unlike oculus fanboys). But… he has to now lie and pretend he didn’t mean it cos.. well DOLLARS and ZUCKERBERG.

            I can’t think of any other company SO blatantly full of lies, so heavy on the BS post FB buyout that have SO MANY thicko fans supporting them and buying the koolaid they keep peddling.

            Oculus are a facebook owned MONEY MAKING COMPANY not a VR COMPANY. They don’t actually CARE that much about the real meaning of VR anymore, just how much crap they can spread on to as many ill fitting systems with ill fitting (or missing – gear VR) controls as possible.

            Carmack, Luckey and Abrash went from heroes of the industry to utter fucking con-men. And that’s sad because I bet none of them actually wanted that to happen but when you deal with the devil (Facebook) that’s how shit turns out.

          • DiGiCT Ltd

            Yeah it is sad afterall but it come indeed more to the reality.
            I can understand Rift fans, as they went for it since the start on crowdfund and finally after long time they get their CV1.
            The americans with the american proud, suddenly just get an asian/american partnership competition which did it more complete and without long time waiting.
            That for sure burns down the pride, so better deny all off it, close ears, close eyes as all VR depends on Occulus success……. NOT

            The reality is that there will be much more HMD’s to choose from and it is expending very fast now.
            This is not what they predicted to happen at all and now they are in a situation not being the NR1 anymore.
            Maybe ergonomics, but hell ya thats nothing to do with usability and functionality, it only satisfied comfort.
            Wrong choice again as most people spend average only 15-30 minutes in VR.
            Playing longer, especially roomscale makes you a superman sports person lol.
            Anyhow all sad story at the end for them, but wake up, ideas and new products dont last for years, improvements and competition is there before you even know it.

            Valve/HTC did also a great thing with opening their lighhouses tech.
            Something which i dont see going to happen on oculus.
            You just stuck with whatever they sell you or dont sell you at all.

            I hope VR at the end will be a mix of Valve lighthouse tracking and osvr modular HMD style.
            Thats what i really want to see in the market, and that also will let people be free to choose what they want to buy with the VR set instead of we tell you want you want….

          • draez

            Your mom is “busy”? Dude, don’t talk about your mom that way. That’s just disturbing. If I was your dad I’d punch you in the mouth for saying that. Sick perv. That’s your mom, have some respect.

          • DougP

            Hate to have to crush you further, as I’m betting this will make you cry… but I don’t think your “mix’n & match’n” PC 3rd-party is great… dream controller will be supported any time soon:

          • draez

            Sorry champ, It already is supported…go look at leap motion for one and there are at least two others, they support both. I was just looking at their api stack on working with it in unity for both vive and rift.
            Go look it up.

          • DougP

            Sorry chump, your dreams of your power-mit being the “future of VR” are dashed. Consumers have spoken & they don’t want it.
            One day your team will catch up, don’t worry, if not by Gen2 then Gen3 product release.
            In the meantime, you keep lobbying Google to implement power-mit in Tiltbrush if it makes you feel better.

          • polysix

            “you are such a Facebook-apologist”

            Exactly what I just called him further up, and he really is, as well as extremely naive/guillable and probably a little thick. I suggest everyone now just ignore the idiot cos he’s as daft as those cunts working at oculus if he thinks anyone can take his words seriously. He doesn’t get VR, and facebook (oculus) no longer CHOOSE to get VR. Fuck ’em (and him)

          • Raphael

            Korg.

    • Doctor Bambi

      Yeah, that absolutely seems like a very tongue in cheek statement; *of course* game pad only games are selling well on Oculus Home.
      I think the point he’s trying to make though, is that there’s a definite market and people are enjoying game pad VR games right now. Touch still has to prove itself.
      When Touch releases, Oculus will be listening to what consumers have to say about it and pivot from there.

      • polysix

        Sure you can always market crap to the Naive, but the shit they are peddling (gamepad games) aint VR. Never was, never will be. It’s traditional 3D gaming “enhanced”. VR is something else entirely, but oculus don’t want to go full out with real VR because they have TOO MANY INTERESTS TO SERVE (Xbox scorpio/MS, samsung etc)

        • Doctor Bambi

          Well then Poly, tell me, what is VR?

          • draez

            He’s either never played something like elite dangerous in vr or is just flat out in denial.

  • Chris

    And i dont buy Adrift and Detached because they use xboxe controllers. I want hands!

  • Ghosty

    Once again Oculus shows how out of touch they are with what we consumers think and what we want… Playing in VR with a controller sucks in comparison to tracked controllers… In fact there is no reason for regular controllers to even exist… Tracked controllers makes them obsolete!

    • draez

      That depends on what you’re playing. If you’re running around then yes, you wouldn’t want a gamepad but if you’re playing a seated experience, the game pad is a universal fit for any seated game. No, It’s not better than a HOTAS or a dedicated steering wheel but as an all around controller it works well from game to game.

      • Ghosty

        Maybe some games but we haven’t even started to see what tracked controllers are fully capable of.. Include hand and finger tracking and wow…. But case in point would you rather play the upcoming seated game star trek bridge crew with a controller or with tracked controllers? And I’m sure most games types that use the controller could be adapted to use tracked controllers in a fashion that just feels more natural… I alway feel like I have handcuffs on while using a controller… It just doesn’t feel right especially after using my Vive controllers… Are they going away though? I’d say probably not right away but eventually yes they will… Just my opinion though… Time will tell the tale but I personally wouldn’t miss it one bit!

        • draez

          Remember that the experience in Vive would mean you are holding on to wands. Do you think that is comparable to pushing buttons on the deck of a star ship? Wouldn’t that break your immersion? I think when touch comes out it will be the better choice because it will allow for your fingers to move naturally but we’ll see.
          That said, they both have the issue of tactile feel from what you see in vr to what you’re actually pressing in real life.

          • Ghosty

            Oh I totally agree that in such a game no controller would be best with hand and finger tracking… But I would still want tracked controllers.. Any tracked controllers over an Xbox to play that game… In fact the wands feel quite good being used as hands… Quite intuitive and when you see hands in game it’s easy to forget you are even using them..

          • DougP

            As Ghosty said, using the motion controllers you *forget* you’re holding a controller.

            It’s hard to explain to people who haven’t experienced using motion controls on a Vive. You feeling like you have your hands “inside the game”. Everything becomes intuitive for interaction, for example picking things up, pressing buttons, etc.

          • draez

            Except that I have experienced Vive controllers. It’s similar to the Playstation Move which I also own.
            You seem to think that there is only one answer to the VR question and everyone must follow suit. Instead I think everyone doesn’t necessarily want to flail around their living room. Some people like the seated experience and want that. The roomscale thing is cute but it’s just not good enough for my taste just yet.

          • DougP

            See, we don’t need to be calling ea other trolls or fanbois – we’re both guilty of in exchanges here.

            My point about the Vive’s controllers is that they DON’T feel like “wands” (whatever that even means, I’ve never owned/held a “wand” I ‘spose).
            Once you are “in game” they feel like they are “whatever they’re meant to represent”:
            1) in games like The Gallery or Job Simulator – they become your “hands” for grabbing things
            2) in games like Space Pirate / Hover Junkers – they become your “guns”
            3) in games like Vanishing Realms they feel like your sword & shield
            Seeing those pics (scrolling on this page) of Luckey holding Touch just looks like some other way of “holding” the controller. To be honest, having your index finger out & hooked around seems *less* immersive than just a comfortable position for your hands.

            Re: “everyone doesn’t necessarily want to flail around their living room”
            I never said that. I don’t think “everyone” wants to do any one thing.
            However, the vast majority of people using your tone/language – “flail around”, either:
            1) haven’t experienced very much room-scale (most of us who have don’t want to go back, have plenty of non-room-scale games but don’t want to play any more)
            2) don’t like the exercise – look, I’m not making a jab on this, as both fit/unfit people might not like the movement & exercise from room-scale
            3) just want seated “cockpit experiences” – where any/all of this debate discussion of xbox controller vs Touch vs Vive’s motion is mute point anyway ….coz they should be using a hotas/steering wheel (depending on cockpit-type game)

            From your comments/attitude, it seems you’re mostly influenced by #1 & #3 (don’t know about #2).
            That….and maybe you pre-ordered a Rift (been fan a long time) & want to *justify* your brand loyalty.
            It do find it ironic that on one hand you apparently defend Touch when it comes to Facebook’s system but then talk about people not wanting to be “flailing around” on the other.
            So you don’t want to “flail around” & like seated games – why are you even commenting on a article about Touch (motion control)?

          • draez

            You judge, you judge without even having tried them. This sums you up

          • polysix

            I think you need to stop talking out of your facebook branded ass and look around the comments, you are literally the only one here defending this practice. Gamepads need to DIE where VR is concerned, no ifs, no buts, the games that feel better with/need them ALSO need to keep the fuck away from VR. Do you get that? You seem to be the only clueless fucker on this entire page that doesn’t get it. Most devs already get this, other than the ones on the oculus/facebook gravy train who’ll say ANYTHING to get their cash.

            That shit aint VR kid, never was never will be, all it is is glorified 3D gaming and will do more harm than good to spreading adoption/acceptance and especially perception of what TRUE VR is. Hopefully, some of my words may have got through that thick skull of yours and made you stop and consider what the whole “VIRTUAL REALITY” was mean to actually mean?

            Hint: It was never about controling a cartoon fox in a 3d fucking platformer, or any kind of abstracted interaction formed by gaze/button press combos. It was always about mimicking REALITY and how we control reality. DO you finally get it? if not, then frankly fuck it, you deserve all the shit VR you heap on yourself by supporting that stupid company any longer.

          • draez

            It does roomscale and it does gamepads.
            Just because it handles one type didn’t mean it can’t another. This is a pc, not a console. Get that through that thick mass on your neck you call a head

      • polysix

        IF YOU ARE PLAYING SOMETHING THAT REQUIRES A FUCKING GAMEPAD IN VR THEN HERE’S THE CLUE – IT’S NOT FUCKING VR! GOT THAT ? IT’S A TRAD GAME STUCK IN VR. THAT IS NOT VR AND SHIT LIKE THAT IS KILLING VR, MAKING IT LIKE A GIMMICK BEFORE IT TAKES OFF. GOD YOU ARE FUCKING DENSE.

        If you must use a gamepad in VR it should be a RARE RARE occasion, probably for a game ILL SUITED for vr in the first place. For racers and shooters you have wheels and guns, hotas and for everything else you have HANDS/wands. Those fucking games that need gamepads that oculus tried to call VR are an atrocity (Chronos, Luckys tale etc). Absolutely NOT what VR was ever meant to be, and Palmer knows this but doesn’t give a single fuck any more so long as his boss is happy.

  • Doctor Bambi

    Can’t tell if this statement just killed my dream of an Rift + Touch bundle being announced at OC3. Maybe there will be a Rift + Touch + Xbox Controller bundle, but Touch seems like such a perfect middle ground between the vive controller and the xbox controller. I agree that not every VR game needs hand tracking to be a VR game, but I still hope I can play non hand tracked games using the Touch controllers.

    • Get Schwifty!

      I am certain you will be able to use them in lieu of a Xbox controller, but it might be in winter 2017 for the bundle, or Spring after the stock with the pad is cleared out. The design gives you the best of both for conventional controller and a better design than the Vive wands by all accounts. All they are saying is they will include them for a time until they simply bundle the Touch with it, and see them still having a place in gaming for more casual, less immersive experience and are still planning on endorsing them as an alternative.

  • DougP

    Re: “we don’t believe gamepads are going away”
    Of course not, at least not for Rift users.
    Facebook’s backdoor deal w/Microsoft has seen to that!

    Devs don’t want fragmentation. If they want to market to the majority of (all!) Rift users – they’ll have to design their game around 10yo controller input/tech.

    So for Rift – of course gamepads aren’t going away, you made it happen!

    • draez

      This argument makes no sense. Lol

      • DougP

        It’s simple – it won’t go away because Facebook+MS backdoor deal wouldn’t let it.

        Back when Luckey was being honest he admitted that “traditional input is crap for VR”.

        So mental exercise for you – do you think if Facebook had the Touch controllers ready at launch that they’d be talking about the longevity & future of “gamepads”?

        The only people I see defending the use of gamepads, are those can’t haven’t tried motion controllers or better alternatives.
        Someone coming from Wii or Playstation, ok…I get that, a learning curve to get onto PC gaming. For the rest of the: hardcore PC gaming crowd or VR enthusiasts – traditional gamepad is dead (never enters into their minds).

        • draez

          I love it when people just make shit up.
          The reason why oculus did not bundle a rift controller instead of a Xbox controller is 2 fold.
          First, there wasn’t enough time to put out proper games using touch controllers. This, by the way was the biggest complaint of those that tried the vive when it came out. The”games” for it felt like demos, not finished products.
          Second, of the games (not glorified demos) that were out were using game pads on PCs because people were already using them for traditional pc games (besides keyboards) so it was already a fit for existing low budget vr development as they knew people already had access to gamepads for the pc..
          Unlike you, who seem to just make things up as you please, here’s a quote from Wikipedia…
          “All Oculus Rift units are bundled with an Xbox One controller as a result of a partnership with Microsoft.[52] The purpose of this inclusion is that the majority of virtual reality games that have been in development over the past few years require a gamepad (and do not use motion controllers such as Oculus Touch), so this will allow all users to play those games without needing to purchase third party hardware.[53]”

          Now go away troll. Spread your delusion elsewhere.

          • DougP

            Re: “I love it when people just make shit up. ”
            That’s apparent – explains why you love the BS Facebook is feeding everyone about:
            “You just weren’t ready for motion controllers”
            “Devs love developing for fragmented market”
            “People don’t want to stand/move around in VR”

            From their track-record I think you’ll get more “made up shit” from Zuck & gang for you to keep loving for quite some time.

            Serious, tell yourself whatever fantasies to let you sleep comfy with your ancient controller tech at night.
            Meanwhile, the rest of us interested in modern+immersive VR will CONTINUE (months now!) enjoying 360-degree tracking, full room-scale, & motion control.
            See how many devs want to develop only for Touch when they know that they’ll be limiting themselves to a subset of the Rift users.

          • draez

            You’re adding things to try to make your point valid. I was referring to your post about them controlling the market with a backdoor deal on game pads which just doesn’t make sense from a developer standpoint.

            If you want to hate on oculus and Facebook go ahead..but don’t make shit up along the way. It invalidates your point.

          • DougP

            You’re the one making things up.
            So you’re upset I said “backdoor deal”?
            Ok – “bad for the consumer deal” with MS?
            Let’s be honest tho’, it was most likely exactly that – backdoor dealings between Facebook & MS. Having to do with long-term goals (avoiding competition, damaging competition) & joint-marketing/etc.

            Sony’s got their VR for console. MS apparently doesn’t. So maybe that was the “backdoor” dealing angle – team up with a major (Facebook $) PC VR manufacturer & tie-in to console, such as the Xbox->Facebook headset for playing (streaming) games?
            Sell a bunch of controllers to begin with.

            Here’s another area, however, where your argument breaks down.
            Hardcore gamers! As we know, most PC hardcore gamers are NOT xbox-controller gamers. Mouse+keyboard or dedicated input devices (hotas/wheel) for cockpit games.

            You can’t have it both ways.
            IF the assumption is – “they’ve all got xbox controllers & will use that” = no need to bundle a *redundant* controller!
            They STILL should’ve shipped with motion controllers for – new/most immersive VR experiences (i.e. “the future of VR”).
            Your argument breaks down no matter how you look at it.

            I get it – you’re a Facbook-fanboi. That’s fine. But don’t go deluding yourself & regurgitating the press/PR-damage-control that Zuck&co have chewed & spit into your mouth.
            Just say – “I’m a fan”, “I’ll take the crumbs the give me”. But don’t make up crap or be disingenuous.

          • draez

            Didn’t you just admit you don’t own a rift? So why are you on here? You are a troll.

          • DougP

            Re: “admit you don’t own a rift?”
            With your fanboy’ish manner, I suprised you didn’t write – say “*confess* don’t own”.

            I’ve owned & used various VR hardware for years now, from DK1, through cardboard/GearVR & Vive.
            So I’m not a pigeon-holed fanboy – I just like & want the best tech & what’s best for the VR community.

            No, I don’t own CV1. Reasons – unlike many blinded fans, I’m not “brand loyal”. I want, & demand, the best & most immersive featureset for VR.
            Hint: Ancient gamepad support ain’t that.

            Now…. “why are you here”…
            Well, exactly as I said. “Touch” & the future of PC VR gaming should be of interest to all of us.
            Well, those of us who don’t want a console-walled-garden infesting our PC gaming.
            So what is promoted by PC VR gaming developers matters to all of us.
            So I came to respond, as a owner&user of several major brands of VR, to the topic of –
            “gamepads might just be great for the future of VR” (says Facebook+MS)
            And express my disagreement. And, explain why I disagree.
            Unlike others, I’ve not drank the Kool-aid from Facebook.

          • draez

            What are you talking about? This is as pointless as ps4 vs Xbox 1 debates. You know, it’s a consumable that anyone can buy, right?
            If you can only afford one then I can see why you are so defensive, dougeepee ..but some of us can get whichever one they want abs for their reasons. If you don’t like that, sorry…that’s life.
            You are incorrect in just about everything you said and you spout shit like it’s gospel.
            Good luck with that.
            You and the Nigerian wizard should start a club. Lol
            Dougeepee and the Nigerian wizard club! Perfect, enjoy that

          • DougP

            Re: “Dougeepee and the Nigerian wizard club!”
            wtf?!

            draez-the-dregs, heehee…see what I did.
            Is that how this works?
            Are you like 12?

            You don’t like being called out on your inconsistencies/contradictions/logic flaws.
            You apparently don’t like facts, that disagree with your fanboy fanaticism.

            Go post in your Facebook-fanclub echo chamber where you won’t be challenged on your ridiculous comments.

          • draez

            No, that’s not how it works at all. Lol

          • DougP

            You go lol’ing, rofl’ing, omg…snick snickering yourself to bed now child. Let the adults continue the discussion without you.

          • Bryan Ischo

            You guys both need to stop, take a breath, and realize that a) your insults are not going to work no matter how desperately you want to hurt the other guy’s feelings. It just doesn’t work that way on the internet. And b) you’ve both lost the plot in terms of making rational and relevant arguments about the topic at hand quite some time ago.

            For the record, I agree with DougP’s positions. Oculus whiffed. Hand tracking is an integral part of the complete VR experience. Gamepads are a fine adjunct for that subset of games that play best with them; but gamepads are a dime a dozen, and we shouldn’t really even be talking about what gamepad a VR company includes with their product. Oculus needed to have touch controls out of the gate, and their miss has only hurt this nascent industry’s ability to rely on a larger user base of players with motion controls, instead having to deal with a fractured controller user base.

            That being said, this is also only the beginning of VR and Oculus has time to catch up and even become front runners of the tech again. But they have to drop the haughty “we don’t think you really need motion controllers so we didn’t bother launching with them even though we could” attitude.

          • draez

            Oculus waited for full featured games to be made using their touch controllers. There’s nothing wrong with that. They wanted a line up of games to be available when they launch touch.
            People are using other controllers in the meantime like leap motion.
            I think vive released theirs too early with unfinished games and demos. That worked in their favor though as it got people excited about it. So it was a won for vive there but that doesn’t mean Oculus is evil. Lol.
            By the end of this year this discussion will be moot as both will have their own versions. I still say by then there will still be games that work best with traditional game pads, just like there are games that work best with a hotas or a steering wheel.

          • polysix

            oh do shut up you uninformed cunt. You haven’t got the first clue about VR clearly. Just stick to the fisher price shit oculus pedals and be happy, but don’t try and ‘argue’ your points with proper VR fanatics who actually get what VR is/was meant to be before facebook and a legion of braindead parrots/apologist twats like you came along.

          • draez

            if VR means you teleport around you roomscale then where is the immersion in that? Face it, your definition of VR Vive can’t even live up to. So why are you defending Vive?

            At least the seated experiences with the Rift I’ve had feel like I’m in the cockpit/car and that I’m in that world without breaking any immersion by hopping from place to place. That’s not VR unless you are a rabbit.

            You’re so fixated you can’t even see that!
            …and you upvoted yourself? lol. lame ass Vive fan boy.

          • DougP

            Well said.

            [ Side note: for the record, I’ll match someone on tone – if they start name calling & making ridiculous assumptions ]

            Competition, alongside some hopefully good *standards*, is a very good thing. I honestly hope at least a 3rd well supported VR headset+system comes along soon.

          • draez

            What inconsistencies/logic flaws/contradictions? You like making shit up, don’t you?
            I’m not the one coming in here with conspiracy theories for oculus,Facebook, and Microsoft. Lol, I think you are the one sipping the Kool aid.
            Are you Gabe Newell? Come on Gabe, you know the Steambox was a disaster. You still have money though. It’s OK, Gabe, it’s OK.

          • DougP

            Steambox?
            Gabe?

            Wow – draez-the-dregs of conversation (heehee, does this 12yo talk you’ve elevated the conversation to work for you better)….needs to work on the trolling skills. You are ALL over the place.
            Go back to servicing The Zuck – he’s waiting for you, troll!

          • draez

            12yo talk works when it’s funny. You aren’t though, sorry. You go back to servicing Gabe.. which could be yourself, jury is still out, DougeePee

          • DougP

            Re: “12yo talk works when it’s funny.”
            Yeah, if you’re 12yo.

            Don’t quit your day job Beavis.
            Zuck needs your continued *service*.

          • draez

            You are very fixated on Zuckerberg. Very interesting.

          • DougP

            You wrote this:
            “Are you Gabe Newell? Come on Gabe, you know the Steambox was a disaster. You still have money though. It’s OK, Gabe, it’s OK.”

            And I’m the one fixated with the person running a company?

            Sure, o-Gaben-obsessed one.

          • DougP

            Re: “Are you Gabe Newell? Come on Gabe”

            Yes… the scales shall now fall from your eyes & you shall behold me!
            It is I, The Gaben! Who Was & Is & Shall Be.

            You have been found guilty of disobeying my commands, as thou has trollest these forums.

            Say three “Hail Half-Lifes!”, stop lying to cover your dirty sins with The Zuck, & all shall be forgiven.

          • draez

            Now I know you are not Gabe. He can’t count to three.

          • draez

            Your best stutters at times breaking immersion. Your best had far noticeable screen door effect. Your best is cheaply built.
            Vive has two things I like. It comes with consumers=good. It has less lens flare/light protrusion=good.
            But it doesn’t have synch time warp so when the game gets too hectic sometimes there is stutter which at best breaks immersion, at worst out makes you sick. Vives display is slightly larger but it’s of lesser quality with a more pronounced screen door effect.

            I’ve seen this for myself between the two.

          • Nigerian Wizard

            You don’t have to own an Oculus or Vive to post here you dumbass. Lots of people, myself included, have generated our own opinions after trying several HMDs. Suck a dick.

          • draez

            Oh boy, here comes someone who knows so much he already resorts to sticking dick comments. Genius, sheer genius. You better get off your mom’s pc before she finds out you’re still awake.

          • DougP

            Re: “You don’t have to own an Oculus or Vive to post here”
            Thanks for backing me up on that.
            I really hate that – “unless you’re in *my* club you can’t have an opinion”.

            I also see the “brand loyal” shouting people down as a “fanboy” for not being with “their brand”.
            For myself, I don’t care about brand when it comes to VR.
            I told draez that I’ve owned & used VR from Oculus DK1 days through cardboard & (yes-gasp again, Oculus teamed) GearVR.
            Oculus deciding to NOT include motion controllers was a contributing factor to my going with Vive. I realize to some that’s not important. Fine.
            I do think it was a mistake of Oculus’ & not good for VR market “in general”, for the type of games I’m interested in (again – to ea his own), by decreasing dev interest in the likes of room-scale & motion control/input.

            Any’how… think we should all be free to express our opinion in these forums, regardless of what hardware we own.

          • polysix

            I’ve owned rift dk1, dk2, vive pre and vive, and I’ve spent time with rift CV1 (and with gamepad it may not as well fucking exist it’s absolutely redundant next to vive). That said I also sold Vive as the tech in gen 1 just aint there yet for the money any of them are asking, so I’m not a fanboy of Valve or anyone, but the fact is Oculus (Facebook) are a lying pack of bastards who don’t care how much damage they do to VR so long as it suits their domination/control plans, inc trickle feeding tech, nerfing VR and going back on a hundred promises and statements.

            You need to catch up with the experts like us guys, not just keep believing all the shit that oculus tell you. THEY LIE. Got it?

          • polysix

            LOL you fucking retard, you are reguritating the BULLSHIT a company has fed you to the very people (myself, DougP and others) who were there supporting oculus long before you probably had even heard of them and long before facebook came along and ruined it all.

            Those lies they told you are just that LIES. Got it? Please STFU with parroting the tripe that facebook (yes FACEBOOK cos that is who they are) pedals. The company is a sham, as facebook are and always will be, and they say whatever they need to say to suit an agenda.

            Palmer luckey was one man, an honest man I like to believe and with great intentions. THAT stopped the day he became a millionaire at facebook’s hands, he can’t do shit now to save VR from the poison FB inject into everytime they move on it.

            Thank fuck we have lots of other players in the game now, the sooner FB VR dies the better for all of VR. And fanboys like you, one day, will come to realise this truth and think back to what fucking naive fools you were.

          • draez

            yep, tele-popping every 3 feet to get to somewhere is so immersive. VR on Vive is so real for doing that. Not taking you out of the experience at all.

        • Shawn Blais Skinner

          Seriously. The gamepad is dead the second the Touch gets out the door, it has 2 joysticks, 4 buttons, 2 triggers… and it has positional tracking. What the heck would you want a traditional gamepad for?

          • DougP

            Exactly!

            Oculus needs to get Touch out door & put xbox controller behind them.

            The crazy thing was, if they’d been able to release the Touch bundled, this “gamepad if popular/standard” argument wouldn’t be happening.
            They could’a just supported 2x “modes”:
            1) game supports “tradition” – meaning you hold the 2x Touch controllers & use it AS an xbox-type controller (same buttons/triggers!)
            2) game supports “motion control” – meaning it’s showing up in the game & allows movement/gestures/etc

            Heck, even for scenario #1 – the controllers could still be made to “show up” in games so you can see & pick-up. Just an added *perk* for games not designed with motion in mind.

            Annoys me the people go through mental gymnastics to justify having 2x different types of controllers.

            Sooner xbox gamepad goes away, the better.

          • Bryan Ischo

            Agreed, and then Oculus could be crowing about how superior their motion controls are to the Vive because they are better for gamepad style play with their joystick and button layout, instead of trying to justify their failure to launch with motion controls.

            Look at how the Oculus Touch was designed. It has joysticks and joypad buttons on it. It *clearly* was intended to serve both as a motion controller and as a reasonable gamepad controller replacement. So clearly they were shooting for something encompassing game pad + motion controls, missed, and had to fall back on just gamepad for launch. So their original goal was in line with the arguments that you and I and others are making: motion control is a necessary part of a complete VR system. Absolutely necessary. Gamepad is bonus too because yes, there are some games that benefit from that control scheme. Oculus missed, plain and simple, and are just trying to save face with their current weak explanations for why they “didn’t launch with touch even though they could have.”

      • polysix

        You make no sense, but then fanboys of a company that hasn’t made sense either, for coming up two years now, rarely do!

        • draez

          Not bothering responding as I posted links to the contrary elsewhere. You live in your bubble but don’t watch those links else you may find out things aren’t as you think they are. Buhbye

    • polysix

      Exactly! What oculus/Facebook has pulled with this BS is disgraceful. How they can STILL lie to our faces while pretending to be ‘good guys of VR’ is beyond me. And still the oculus fanboys are lapping that crap up?

      Oculus don’t give a shit about VR anymore, they did before FB bought them, Palmer may still do but can’t do anything good anymore. So now it’s toe the line, say what needs saying, and keep VR dumbed down to console/mobile level to keep partners and facebook happy.

      What they are serving is NOT VR, certainly NOT the VR they promised. Far far from it (even with touch)

      • draez

        It is vr, you are a troll or just batshit dumb. Either way.

  • Peter S

    The allure of VR is that it’s going to bring VR to the masses. But not with game pads. No-one i’ve demoed to has had the slightest interest in using anything other than controllers once they see virtual hands. As a ‘VR purist’ (i love how Facebook put a condescending spin on the enthusiast tag), controllers are a poor substitute for HOTAS or driving wheel.

    • draez

      But you don’t see your hands using a hotas or steering wheel so I’m not sure where you’re going with that comment. I agree, a HOTAS is the way to go for simulation regarding flighthe and a wheel for driving. With either of those hands aren’t tracked.
      I wouldn’t use a game pad or a wand for those types of gamesome. There are games that work better with wands and some with gamepads,etc.

      It depends on the game.

      • polysix

        Draez still doesn’t get it. STFU oculus fanboy and GTFO out discussion with people who understand why oculus are ruining VR before it’s even taken off!

        • draez

          It’s so funny how you and doggie pee have banded together. You guys should get a room.
          Just because your version of vr precludes seated and arcade definitely doesn’t mean they aren’t vr experiences. They are in fact much better than the current crop of roomscale experiences for any system.
          Here’s some hover junkets on the oculus.
          Omg, it can do that? Yeah moron, it can and more…
          https://youtu.be/oW_wdF2wwt8

  • RipVoid

    I think its pretty clear, Oculus is not developing the Rift for gamers anymore. Its developing for mom’s and wives that don’t want the furniture moved around.

    • draez

      Rift can do anything the vive can do. Honestly you need to be more informed and stop listening to the trolls.

      • polysix

        That’s actually bollocks. It’s not even about what it COULD technically do given enough shitty add-ons and work arounds, it’s the fact it’s NOT THE STANDARD> when will you fucktards get that? While oculus continue to push gamepads, you’ll get seated/180 standing gamepad crap with occasional touch stuff (and that will also only be 180 standing due to the amount of cams needed and their lack of balls).

        All of that is a moot point next to the TRUE bs stunt they are pulling, they don’t give a crap about VR or your immersion in it, they are more concerned with keeping VR dumbed down with consoles and mobile and shit input so that they can keep their partners (samsung and microsoft) happy, while tracking user data like never before. For true VR we may have to go elsewhere, be it Vive or something better in future.

        • draez

          It’s a pc environment. It sounds like you want a console experience.

    • polysix

      I think it’s better to say they are developing it for CASH INs and the naive (inc gamers). Clearly they are ANTI-VR if anything cos the shit they keep serving up is about as far from real VR as you can get while still pretending you are VR (that includes Gear VR – utterly disgraceful posion to VR, and rift + Gamepad as standard).

      I had DK2, and Vive (sold both now and awaiting gen 2), but oculus will never get my VR cash ever again while they continue down this route of barefaced bullshit and lying to VR fans who put them where they are. Ditch the fucking gamepads, sort your shit oculus before someone else comes along and knocks you in the dirt for good, along with your money-first, self serving, data tracking, non VR crap.

      • Bryan Ischo

        Why did you sell your Vive?

    • draez

      Wow, you have issues. You’d be a perfect drone.

      • RipVoid

        I have issues? You’re the one that is making far to many compulsive inane posts. I’ve stopped reading them.

        • draez

          Great, one less vivebot.

          • RipVoid

            I’m not a ‘vivebot.’ I would be thrilled if Oculus was leading the market and pushing the boundaries of VR. The reason I bash them is because they’re cable of doing it but don’t. At this point I’m resigned to look elsewhere for true innovation.

          • draez

            I can respect that. I felt the same way about vive.they shoe horned in their hand system to quickly get it to market before oculus had their’s out. Smarty on their part but the entire vive system feels cheap by comparison. Not to mention most of their experiences felt like demos and I wasn’t the only one that came away with that feeling.
            Having said that, sure Oculus has dropped the ball in how long they’ve taken to get touch to market but once it’s out it will be the better all around system.
            Having said that, first they have to actually bring it out in order to stay relevant and second the price has to be competitive for it.
            If they fail on either of those within the next couple of months then I’ll be over in the vive court too.
            I know they are showing it at shows and people do have them to demo so it’s a real thing but they need to ship it and stop messing around.

          • RipVoid

            Meanwhile, SteamVR is giving gamers choices for handsets, hmds, and other interesting accessories. http://www.roadtovr.com/triad-chips-lighthouse-steamvr-tracking-ts3633-cm1/

          • draez

            No offense but they aren’t giving gamers choice. They are trying to make their lighthouse design the standard by giving it away for free to 3rd party hardware makers. That’s just them securing their interests in vr. It’s a good move for them but it doesn’t validate/invalidate any other offerings.
            There are already 3rd party hardware that work on the rift because it’s on a pc and PCs are open by their nature.

  • OkinKun

    It’s surprising/disappointing that people have any issue with this statement.. I mean, it’s common sense.. There are just some games, which will never work as good with VR hand/motion-controls, as they do with proper gamepad/joystick controls, or other custom controllers. There is no 1 size fits all.. tho gamepad has existed for this long, because it’s a good control system. You can try to tack on VR hand-controls into a space/flight sim game, but until we have much better VR hardware, years from now, the gamepad will still be better, as a general baseline controller. Even custom stuff like hotas and wheels, are better than a motion-controller for lots of things.
    I’m not the only developer who’s currently making a VR game, with gamepad being the main control method. I can’t wait for Touch, and I’m sure I’ll start working on a project for that soon enough, but gamepad certainly isn’t going away, even for VR.

    • Bryan Ischo

      But the thing is, it’s easy to acquire gamepads for those few games for which that is the best input. Right now it is *impossible* for anyone owning a Rift to have Vive quality hand tracking. And those of us who have used the full hand tracking solution of the Vive know that it’s a tremendously important part of many of the best VR experiences. So we feel like Oculus should be getting their touch controllers out as soon as possible and treating the “XBox controller” era as a mistake, and acknowledging it as such, for the purpose of elevating the common experience on their platform to where it should be. Anything less just feels like Oculus is just trying to stand by a poor decision so as not to lose face. And it’s not helping VR as a medium because it’s making it harder for there to be a common denominator of motion controls that game designers can rely on.

      You kind of made the point yourself. You are a game developer and you’re not developing a motion controlled game because you can only rely on XBox controls for the platform you are developing. Of course what you should be doing is designing a game that could use motion controls in a way that adds immersion to your game, and allow for an XBox controller as a backup solution for those customers who don’t have had tracking. But it doesn’t sound like you are doing that. And Oculus is now defending your (sorry to have to say it) lazy design methodology instead of supporting you in forging new and exciting ways to use the full spectrum of VR tech. VR enthusiasts who want to see VR be all that it can be are understandably nonplussed that Oculus is supporting this stunting of the VR development landscape.

      • draez

        It’s impossible? Really? Look around…this is a pc not closed architecture
        Here’s one: https://www.leapmotion.com/product/vr

        • Bryan Ischo

          When that third party controller is not supported by 98% of games, then yes, it’s effectively impossible.

          • draez

            What 98% are you quoting? Where did you get that number from?

          • Bryan Ischo

            I made it up. It was meant to imply that the vast majority of Rift games do not support the Leap Motion. If you have evidence to the contrary, please present it. Keep in mind that the game would have had to have been designed from the get-go with the ability to represent hands within the game and allow object manipulation via those. And since most Rift games assume only an XBox controller, you’re going to have a very hard time coming up with a significant list of games that can use the Leap Motion.

          • draez

            Fair enough. You can play ALL Vive games on an Oculus Rift if you have leap motion or razer hydra. SteamVR will detect it. Actually Razer Hydra is pretty close to Vive’s controller but the price shot up. It was unset 100 usd at one point.

            http://www.vrspies.com/realitycheckvr/leap-motion-controllers-are-working-in-steamvr-how-to-guide/

          • polysix

            Bryan, leave these VR noobs to their wrong assumptions. It’s impossible to get them to understand, they just don’t get the harm that gamepads are doing and will continue to do to holding back REAL/GREAT VR, even worse they can’t begin to accept the real reasons Palmer u-turned on the whole gamepad issue (Money and Partner tie ins – ie Xbox Scorpio).

            There’s nobody who’s into VR that doesn’t know already that certain games do indeed play better with a gamepad (in VR), the problem is those games don’t fucking BELONG in VR in the first place! They are all monumentally crap, ALL support the “VR IS A GIMMICK” misunderstanding and do nothing to convince anyone that VR is more than the next 3D FAD. THAT is mostly thanks to shit like Gear VR and now Xbox pad on Rift.

            Had oculus done what they promised back before FB bought them, and as Vive is trying to do now, and focussed on the full system of VR, then that would have been the lead/priority of VR to reach GREAT VR. We could have tacked on gamepads anytime, we all have them, or they are cheap. They have made them the bloody standard, and that has held real VR back by years. If you don’t get that then you simply don’t understand what “VR” is meant to be and why people have been waiting 20+ years for it to arrive properly. It’s not about frigging 3D platform/rpg games with head cameras ffs, that’s just enhanced 3DTV, nothing else.

            That is NOT VR. Do you walk around in real life with a gamepad doing all your chores/sports/fun with the press of a button and a d-pad gesture + a look? do you fuck, you use your body, it doesn’t feel real without that. It’s not VR without that. It’s a shitty subset of VR, a gimmicky shitty subset and one that oculus are determined to make the ‘main’ focus with this u-turn and continued self serving bullshit.

            I hope oculus go out of business asap, the sooner the better for the good of VR in the long run. They did their bit with hype building then shot their load too soon with the FB buyout. They are now a worthless shell of a VR company and no true VR fanatic can take them seriously any more.

      • OkinKun

        It’s not impossible at all. I have Razer Hydras, and they’re able to function pretty damn good, and emulates Vive controllers for some things. lol
        And besides, I’m not worried about waiting a few more months. That’s about it now.

    • draez

      Exactly, it’s not one size fits all.

  • MyPOV

    Don Rider realized this years ago and has a lot of experience playing high accuracy motion gaming using popular TV console games. Look up his you tube videos. Here’s a Oculus proof of concept done for fun a couple of years ago. Notice the controller being used.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=38WhE3jsa5A

  • DiGiCT Ltd

    Another joke from Oculus, must say they are more creative in making up stories rather then good products.
    There is nothing special about an XBOX gamepad,
    Gamepads are as old as hell and do not fit to VR although it does not mean that something with a gamepad is not VR, it just let you experience it different.

    They did not clearly think about VR in all detail, as they really forgot to think about a controller for VR, their focus was just a simple HMD and you sit in your chair in front of you PC to play those games.
    That was all that they actually wanted to sell you !!
    They never did think about roomscale as they did not know what it was.
    With that in mind you should know that a rift is not designed for it and will have tracking issues in certain situations using roomscale.
    They could indeed make a good roomscale capable device but that would take them more time as they need to redevelop their tracking system for it.
    If gamepads where that great I think the WII controlers were even more special as a stupid xbox controller.
    The price is insane as it does not cost anything, i bought a very similar controller bluetooth from XIAOMI which works perfectly and costed me like $15 retail price !
    That tells a lot about the value of an gamepad and how cheap they are to produce.

    On the other hand the problem is for sure Content……
    As those tracked controllers are differeent and open new ways of controling games, many devs dont know how to use them and how they would fit in their game.
    Thats what i mentioned many times as VR is a new medium and all content need to be rethought about.
    There lies the problem for devlopers as they dont rethink to make a new game but rather just port their game to have an HMD feature.
    Thats oculus style.

    All is done in a hurry now , just to catch up with current market.
    Just to reach the goal and cover up their fails.
    Having more content would let ppl buy a rift instead of Vive, but now also PSVR hits the market with plenty of titles and being even cheaper as a rift or vive.

    Rift And Vive should be counted as the highend VR devices for consumers.
    Vive is just the better one from both based on functionality and usability.
    Rift is not bad, just more genral device as there are already other devices on the market in Chian that do the same, even OSVR has very near similar results.
    Vive makes it more usefull becuase of their tracking system and even open their LH tech to 3rd parties for making more controllers.
    Vive also wind the high end market as they know how to talk and listen to their potential customers and devlopers whereas Oculus style is more like “Take it or leave it” or ” My way or the highway” attitude.

    As @DougP i own a lot of devices and not just only VR but also AR, been prototyping like 2 years already and developing apps for both platforms.
    I did not see much in VR but more in AR before i had the Vive.
    The moment the vive arrived I just had something like i give it a try but did not expect much as all the other VR was for me far away from finished.
    But when i had those controllers and even could accurate grab them without moving my HMD off really changed my mind.
    A gamepad can be good for games in VR but it needs to be tracked as it feels much better in VR, even when it is just to find it without removing you HMD.

    • OkinKun

      Why do you guys waste your time making these posts? So much effort to hate on something you seemingly view as just slightly worse.. This will all be entirely pointless in a few months. At that point, us developers can just choose whatever we wanna do for our VR games, seated or room-scale, gamepad or motion controllers, or freaking mouse and keyboard if we want.. And not worry about whether it’s on Rift or Vive, they’ll be essentially interchangeable, and differences will come down to personal preferences. For this first generation of consumer-level VR to get off it’s feet, both the Rift and Vive have been amazing in their own ways, neither has fallen behind, there hasn’t been enough time for that to matter yet.

      In my OPINION, both of you have a very odd set of preconceived views about Oculus, their history, and their reasoning. As someone who also watched them from the start, I got entirely different impressions.. Nothing was hurried, they spent a lot of time doing great R&D, and focused a LOT on VR itself. A few understandable mistakes happened along the way but common.. You’re just finding every little silly thing to make into a negative, and hate on them, and that’s all I ever see you guys doing here. Give it a rest already..

      • polysix

        Because they are a pack of fkin liars that’s what riles us. THEY (palmer) is on record as agreeing/knowing gamepads are AWFUL for true VR, then they push them because it now suits their monetary future (XBOX TIE IN!). This has been the whole reason to pretend gamepads are ‘ok’ for VR, because the emphasis for them changed from “THE BEST VR” to “THE VR WE CAN SHOEHORN INTO AS MANY ILL FITTING SYSTEMS AS POSSIBLE” From Console to mobile phone, fuck the good controls, tracking, framerates etc. If they can brand it and stick it on something they will! THAT is the exact opposite of everything this cuntish company claimed these past years (until the $$$ started calling).

        And touch or not, it doesn’t matter if they CONTINUE to push gamepads too, they are poisoning the VR well themselves, like a bunch of backwards fuck-tards without a clue, but they do have a clue, they just keep acting like they don’t cos they (Facebook) want cash more than GREAT VR that will change the world. THey just want to CASH IN on VR now. Massive change. Palmer would say the same if he truly could (he probably has nightmares about it but is now STUCK).

        EVERY. SINGLE. STEP. of oculus’ consumer VR has been 1 broken promise after another, from pricing, to controls, to spec, to “we’ll have better hmds thanks to facebook” which is all utter BS. Those of us who were around at the start of Oculus know this, newbies maybe can’t see what crap they continue to pedal since FB bought them!

        Facebook only cares about VR for one reason – DATA = CASH. Everything they’ve done is now designed around that, not ‘great VR’. If you can’t see it there’s not helping you.

        BTW I never come back to comment pages so don’t waste your time with a reply (I never read any replies good or bad)

        • draez

          Having a game pad option doesn’t hurt anything. You can still play without it. You can play whatever you want how you want. This is a pc ecosystem. No one is pissing in your cheerios. There are 3d controllers available already for both systems. In fact some work across systems

      • yag

        Valve faboyism + FB hating is a dreadful combo. Thankfully we can block users now on Disqus.

  • Pete

    To me the Xbox controller on the Rift is a complete failure! Wheels, flights sticks, & hand motion controllers only for VR!! Hurry the hell up Oculus and stop making bullshit excuses!

    • draez

      So go buy a hotas and wheel. They are already out

      • Pete

        Already have them of course.

      • polysix

        His point was gamepads should be left to die with traditional videogames. VR has very little to do with that, or at least wouldn’t without oculus being turncoats and going back on everything they ever claimed about what makes GREAT VR. Bunch of liars who now say whatever they need to say to keep their partners (and future partners – ie Xbox Scorpio) sweet. /rollseyes

        • draez

          Moron, Phil Spencer already clearly stated that any vr will work with Scorpio.
          Did you want to argue that? He’s pretty open about it.

  • Peter Hansen

    “…the gamepad gameplay that Rift users are using today.”

    HAVE to use. Arrogant d*mb*ss*s.

    • draez

      No they don’t. It’s a pc, you can use whatever you want. There’s always a way.

      • Peter Hansen

        So Oculus is pushing game pad, developers are implementing game pad, and you are telling me, I can use mouse/keyboard whenever I want?! Please tell me how that works, I NEED T KNOW!!! (watch out for sarcasm)

        PC Gamers made Oculus big, and then we got kicked in the nuts.

        • draez

          You can use anything you want. It comes with a gamepad but you don’t have to use it for the games that are better with something else
          https://youtu.be/_FDAZKaCbiw

          • Peter Hansen

            So I can just use mouse/keyboard. For titles like Adr1ft, Damaged Core… Right?

          • draez

            Come on, you can use any type of compatible device. The game would have to support it first which is true for any platform.
            The point was, there is more than one way to have control in pc.there are 3rd party controls available that let you play vive only games on rift…and with less screen door effect. Although it does have more god rays

          • Peter Hansen

            I think you don’t get it. Oculus is shaping this. They want the game pad. Games get reviewed by Oculus…

          • draez

            If they want the gamepad why make the touch? Before you answer, the touch has been in the works for a while now. It’s not like they realized it after the vive came out

          • draez

            If you’re at an apple pie contest and someone said that’s the best pie they every tasted…you would pretty much know it was about Apple pie, right?

    • OkinKun

      I can easily play a lot of Vive games on my Rift, with my Razer Hydras.
      And I’m planning to make my own VR game eventually support both gamepad and Touch to some degree.

  • Peter Hansen

    It’s a shame but I don’t buy Damaged Core because of the game pad. Game pads just don’t allow for fast game play. But if I play an FPS, that is how it should be played: fast.

    At first I thought I had bought a PC accessory with the Rift, but soon I found out I was wrong. I bought a console for my PC. I don’t like this fat little boy.

    • draez

      Just use the gamepad for arcade type games and buy a hotas and or steering wheel for flying/racing games. It’s not one size Fits all. Each game is different depending on what it is and how is presented to the player.

  • Raphael

    Oculus affirns commitment to outdated non-vr console technology. This is wonderful. I will sell my vive and start using my eggbox controller.

  • DougP

    On Xbox controller –
    “they’re pretty shitty” – Palmer Luckey

    I’ll just leave this here:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQUYbm_7hsA

    • draez

      They are shitty for room scale vr. Not so much for seated vr or arcade vr experiences.

  • Mane Vr

    thanks god.. I would hate to be force to always use motion control

    • polysix

      It’s not VR with a gamepad. End of story. What you want is enhanced “3D games”, the rest of us want VR and ways around the new problems real VR may bring.

      Traditional gaming is over there >>> lets not lumber VR with it any longer than needed.

      • draez

        You’re kind of an idiot. Of course its vr.
        If he’s sitting in a cockpit encompassed by that world while he’s actually in a chair in his home than he’s in a virtual reality. Do you not understand that?
        I think you’re stuck that roomscale is the only vr. It isn’t. Vr=virtual reality..sitting or standing.
        Vive has racing games. Do you not consider them Vr experiences?

  • ..manus vr, leap motion.. Oculus touch… I’ve bought the rift many months ago but since now played a few hours, extremely boring an unnaturally feeling with gamepad or keyboard. So for now is taking dust until we will have a vr controller and not a console one. In Oculus they should have lunched the rift with touch like Vive did, but they weren’t ready. But seeing my 699 euros paper holder makes me argue every day’s more, and many times I’ve thought ti sell it and take a Vive or wait next gen since however res and video quality are far from awesome by now. But I am holding tight until touch and than we will see.

    • Bryan Ischo

      Just curious, why are you so committed to sticking with Oculus? You’ve already acknowledged that you can have the experience you are looking for with Vive …. why the hesitation to purchase?

  • polysix

    These guys have lost the plot. What happened to you oculus? You don’t know VR from your elbow anymore.

    Gamepads MUST go away or it’s NOT VR.

    • draez

      You are incorrect

  • draez

    OH look what the military considers VR…what? A seated experience? The military considers this VR? Poly6 and DougP are going to have an aneurysm over this.

    http://www.military.com/video/forces/technologies/sea-air-space-virtual-reality-simulator/4898107398001